Large Scale Central

Remainders of EPL stuff

General Discussion
#21

Gosh George, we all know what is is the meaning of the word “model” in science, technology and art. But these models are used as representations of real world in order to facilitate understanding of the phenomenon or object in question. You will not be able to defend anything by referring to the scientific use of the word “model” since the objective of their creation is different than “pleasure” and “play”.

(Actually, there is also an expression “toy model” in physics, used to refer to unrealistically simple models and “playing with models” is what PhD’s are usually asked to do… )

But you need to read more than the first sentence of the very page in Wikipedia which you cited:

“Physical models in science and technology allow us to simulate or visualize something about the thing it represents. A model in this sense is a physical object such as an architectural model of a projected building or an existing one. Possible technical uses of an architectural model is to facilitate visualization of internal relationships within the structure or external relationships of the structure to the environment. Other uses of models in this sense are as toys.”

Now “toys”, are also defined in Wikipedia, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy ) as: “A toy is an object used in play. Toys are usually associated with children and pets, but it is not unusual for adult humans and some non-domesticated animals to play with toys.”

I tend to agree with this definition, as it covers all the railroading actitivies of mine and my friends from Kichijoji and Susono clubs (in particular the reference to non-domesticated well applies to Susono members;-), perhaps better in a slightly modified definition, to “non-domesticated adult humans and animals”;-)). But “toys” does not necessarily imply “cheap and cheerful”, the toys they play, generally start with cheaper makes such as Aster or O.S. , but end with Doringsha and various one off pieces of value comparable with top models of BMW or small family house in Japan.

Best wishes from Tokyo, Zubi

PS Mind you sometimes these toys do useful work too! Pulling a small train with children.

#22
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
John Joseph Sauer said:
Tony,

That’s your opinion and you are entitled to it. We do not all concur with you take on what happened.
Personally I’m waiting to see how much longer it will take for Märklin to actually bring product to the market (it’s been quit a while already). They don’t seem to be setting the hobby industry on fire at the moment!


Marvin, JJ or whoever is presently “in charge”,

You obviously missed a few posts about the production/delivery schedule that Märklin LGB® issued. Nothing to get excited about, but a firm indication that the plans are moving ahead. And that’s a good thing! :wink: :slight_smile:

PS the previous standards, looking at Märklin’s track record, I wouldn’t worry about “the previous standards”, those guys were producing trains when Wolfgang Richter was knee high to a grasshopper!


I saw the “proposed” delivery schedules- I’ll believe it when I see product.
P.S. The company that was producing trains when Wolfgang was knee high to a grasshopper suffered the same fate at the hands of investment bankers!

#23

You missed some other posts, too.
As I mentioned getting to the “100 and something” anniversaries seems a real handicap i.e. Märklin, then LGB, followed by Fleischmann.

Biggest difference: Marklin and Fleischmann could read the writing on the wall, even the most stubborn family members. It’s either that or they are “just not as clever” as some of the Richters believe(d) themselves to be. Haven’t read anything about anyone of the Märklin or Fleischmann families going into the consultancy business. :lol: :lol: :wink:

#24

At least all the aforementioned produced something rather than simply dishing out lip service.

#25

Amen, Jack Amen!

#26

Zubi Wrote

"You will not be able to defend anything by referring to the scientific use of the word “model” since the objective of their creation is different than “pleasure” and “play”. "

I have to dissagree. The last four words of the deffintion say it all. “represents the real thing.” I think the case for all model railroaders has just been made.

So now lets look at this in a logical way.

“A toy is an object used in play.”

So toy = play

People play with models.
so model = play

there for one can say with 100% correctness that
model = toy

Now one can get pleasure from making a model. this is called modeling.

so model = pleasure

its also known that playing brings pleasure.

play = pleaseure

So. Play = pleasure, pleasure = model, model = toy., play = toy.

So your statement of :

"You will not be able to defend anything by referring to the scientific use of the word “model” since the objective of their creation is different than “pleasure” and “play”. "

Not only did I defend it, I proved with scientific use that the objective of pleasure and play is the same and not different.

So I guess it doesn’t matter what they make so long as everyone can get out of it what they like weather that be pleasure of having the model or wonting to play with there new toy.

#27

Geoff,
while I agree per se, the term, model, in today’s hobby concept, implies that the item created has a scale, while the more generic term ‘toy’ implies more a caricature representation of the item. Of course, the word, model, has many other meanings, but one must stay within the boundaries of the discussion.

#28
Jack Barton said:
At least all the aforementioned produced something rather than simply dishing out lip service.
Funny, funny Jack!

Good thing you’re in the buying and collecting end of the hobby! :confused: :smiley:

#29

Anything as long as it’s not the end of the hobby you are in!

Several years back I entered a large scale module contest and placed fifth out of nearly 600 entries. Even won a prize. I’m still waiting for Profi to publish photos of the great Eastern Mountain backyard plyboard layout. Is that your end of the hobby?

#30

Dear Jack,

Let me assure you that GBp will definitely be the publication of choice when it comes to presenting my garden layout in IIm, same goes for the various and sundry 1:22.5 items that are being worked on. But until such time … mums the word in most instances. What is being worked on? …

I just keep working, taking pictures and making notes.

BTW Sorry, you missed out on the EMM micro-series stuff. But you just never know when there will be more, our established customers count on that. :wink: :smiley:

PS I’m off to clean up the hobby workshop, it gets messy when one works on several different projects in parallel. And after that I’m off to the EMM shop, more cleanup. I just can’t stand it when it gets too messy to find things at first crack. :lol: :lol:

#31
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Dear Jack,

Sorry, you missed out on the EMM micro-series stuff. But you just never know when there will be more, our established customers count on that. :wink: :smiley:


HJ

I did see them. Even though I passed, they were nice models. I’m sure your inner circle would appreciate you getting back to the work shop.

Jack

#32

The inner circle knows that I’m in the workshop.

#33

New at LSC - how to beat a dead horse

#34

Mark,
one of the advantages of LSC is that Bob allows a measure of self censorship and ‘trading of punches’ is part of the experience. We are all mature human beings and banter like this allows an insight into each person’s character. Another forum site would jump heavily on this sort of exchange, fearing the inevitable. Sit back and enjoy, or simply ignore, that is your perogative. However, different strokes for different folks.

    You are new to the forum  (and most probably a lot younger than the gents in question),  so do not understand that this exchange of banter is positive for those concerned.  If they were offended then they would cease posting on this site and start their own forum family group where they would be omnipotent and supreme ruler of their domain.
#35
Geoff George said:
Zubi Wrote

"You will not be able to defend anything by referring to the scientific use of the word “model” since the objective of their creation is different than “pleasure” and “play”. "

I have to dissagree. The last four words of the deffintion say it all. “represents the real thing.” I think the case for all model railroaders has just been made.


Geoff, you cannot disagree. Models in science and technology are not meant for fun but in order to facilitate our understanding of the real thing. This is why they are built to represent the real thing as much as possible, at the abstraction level considered.

But I agree with you that model railroads are toys to be played with for fun and pleasure - at our current level of science there is no need to build model locomotives or rail-net layouts in order to understand their working, although this still may be done for educational purposes.

Back to fun, some model railroaders get more fun from running, live steaming and such, some from fiddling with details, historical paint schemes or scale issues, while imagining the real thing. But they all play with toys.

Geoff George said:
So I guess it doesn't matter what they make so long as everyone can get out of it what they like weather that be pleasure of having the model or wonting to play with there new toy.
Absolutely! Best wishes, Zubi
#36

Hay Zubi
You have to admit it was a good argument on my behalf.
The best back to you.

#37

OK, HOLD IT!
What was the content - in English - of the original announcement brought to screen in German?
Is the auction singularly to sell corporate fixtures? Is it to sell stamping devices and injection molding equipment? What is being auctioned off?

If the auction is to sell-off those items that create large scale products, then there is reason to keep the postings on target. The more significant questions could then be asked.

If not, continue to have at it.

Wendell

#38

Wendell,

The page translates well on Babel-fish. Just a small disarrangement of words in the title. It contains next to no information, but basically offers some old machinery and office furniture. In other words, that which Märklin didn’t want. I feel sure that the land owner wants the building emptied. Sorry, it doesn’t help advance any conspiracy theories.

Jack

#39

Nobody has mentioned conspiracy theories but you, Jack.
Unless I missed some encrypted message somewhere.

It just means it’s over.
Like, when they cut up your ship.

#40

Hey Dave,

Sooner or later there will be a date of auction, an itemized list of “stuff” etc. etc. etc.
And when that one is done, there is only the real estate left and then the “Fat Lady” may sing!

But one never knows what inquiries are still in progress; initiated by other government agencies. :wink: :smiley: :wink: