I understand what Steve was asking about and we have allot of replies up in here about this topic. I just thought it worth remembering that the railroads need to secure their property, personnel and goods being transported in a post 9/11 environment. I need not elaborate on that. By employing certified police officers, the railroads can effect arrest right on the spot and not have to await the local police in whatever jurisdiction they happen to be in and owing to the fact that railroads operate in remote and often extreme environments, having certified police in and around their property patrolling is a good thing.
Craig Townsend said:
Steve,
Interstate Commerce Clause?
From HJ’s original link on the CN
“In the U.S., each state in which CN operates grants police powers to CN Police Officers. State specific powers are also augmented by Interstate Authority granted by the United States Secretary of Transportation (Code 49USC28101)”
So I would suggest reading Code 49USC28101 to find the answer…
Craig, I’ve never questioned the “how.” That’s easy, just make it so. As the King said, “So it is said, so let it be written.”
What I question is the “why.” Why is it a good idea to allow a privately held corporation to have sworn police officers, other than, “That’s the way we’ve always done it.”
I was thinking that perhaps it should be a function of Homeland Security (shudder), then I came to my senses. I just decided that perhaps I should just shut up and accept things as they are. I’m still not sure that it is a good idea, but is sure is better than anything else that I’ve been able to think of.
BTW I ordered that book on the Canadian Pacific Police Service. I’m sure I’ll learn a thing or two reading it.
Steve Featherkile said:
What I question is the “why.” Why is it a good idea to allow a privately held corporation to have sworn police officers, other than, “That’s the way we’ve always done it.”
Steve,
The answer to WHY is most likely that the government police forces do not want to be bothered enforcing the law for one particularly spread out business.
Steve Featherkile said:
Craig Townsend said:
Steve,
Interstate Commerce Clause?
From HJ’s original link on the CN
“In the U.S., each state in which CN operates grants police powers to CN Police Officers. State specific powers are also augmented by Interstate Authority granted by the United States Secretary of Transportation (Code 49USC28101)”
So I would suggest reading Code 49USC28101 to find the answer…
Craig, I’ve never questioned the “how.” That’s easy, just make it so. As the King said, “So it is said, so let it be written.”
What I question is the “why.” Why is it a good idea to allow a privately held corporation to have sworn police officers, other than, “That’s the way we’ve always done it.”
I was thinking that perhaps it should be a function of Homeland Security (shudder), then I came to my senses. I just decided that perhaps I should just shut up and accept things as they are. I’m still not sure that it is a good idea, but is sure is better than anything else that I’ve been able to think of.
Steve why is it not a good idea? I get the feeling that you think a private company will take advantage of the system with its police force. That’s imposable because of state guidelines that all departments have to follow. It keeps corruption from happening and if it does it eventually gets stopped. Having better security (having a police force) for our railroads is better then having none or having security guards. People don’t take security guards serious. Wouldn’t you want to protect your investment and the people that ride your rails? Sometimes security guards are the worst. Why do you lock your doors. If someone wants in your house they will find a way. Locking your doors gives you more peace of mind and that added security.
Shawn (napkin builder) Viggiano said:
Locking your doors gives you more peace of mind and that added security.
So does a 9mm Glock on your hip…
hehe that too ken…
Steve read this. Maybe this will help some. I found it interesting. Maybe help with the why…
http://therailroadpolice.com/history.htm It gives the entire history to present day.
Taken from above link
Today’s Special Agent
Since the late 1800’s, the role of the railroad police has been to protect the railroad’s resources, passengers, and cargo from vandalism, theft, and robbery. Today, the role of the railroad police officer has not changed much.
Since WWII railroad police numbers have drastically shrunk from 9000 in North America just after the war to somewhere around 1200 in the United States today. The great majority of these men and women work for five railroads: Amtrak, Burlington Northern Santa Fe, CSX, Norfolk Southern, and the Union Pacific.
In virtually every state, railroad police go through the same training and standards as any other police, sheriff’s deputy, or state police officer. Although paid by the railroad companies themselves, railroad police officers have the authority to conduct investigations and make arrest for crimes committed against the railroad. Some agencies, such as AMTRAK police also attend the Federal Law Enforcement Training Academy as part of their training.
Although hiring standards vary from railroad to railroad, most railroad police officers must already be certified in the state in which they are employed to work, pass a physical fitness standard, and have a college degree or a minimal amount of college hours. Once employed by the railroad, the officers will usually undergo several weeks of training above and beyond what they have already learned through a police academy.
The duties of today’s railroad police officer often involves routine uniform or plain clothes patrol of rail yards, depots, and railroad property either by foot or car, conducting complex investigations involving cargo theft, vandalism, theft of equipment, arson, train/vehicle collisions, and even investigate assault and murders that may spill over onto railroad property. Due to such a wide variety of cases that a railroad police officer may have to handle, being flexible and having knowledge of some of the most advanced law enforcement techniques is essential.
During patrols, officers are usually looking for persons trespassing on railroad property. Although some trespassers are looking for a chance to commit a crime, for the most part, these trespassers are pedestrians taking shortcuts along the tracks or across the rail yard, not realizing how dangerous the railroad tracks and yards can be.
To help reduce these incidents, railroad police often go to schools and civic organizations to take a proactive approach to reducing trespasser incidents by educating citizens about the dangers of trespassing.
Unfortunately, the other classifications of trespassers are sneaking into rail yards with the intention to steal merchandise, or hop a freight train to get out of town after committing a crime. While most are petty thieves, some are organized criminals that steal high value merchandise from trains, sometimes using very sophisticated methods to commit their crimes, such as; counter surveillance against railroad police, portable radios and cell phones to communicate, and rental or stolen vehicles to load the stolen merchandise.
When such a complex criminal operation occurs, railroad police agencies often utilize the latest surveillance technology and investigative techniques to catch the criminals. Special burglary teams use night vision scopes, thermal imagers devices, K-9 teams, and other equipment that affords them the best opportunity to resolve the problem.
Like other sizable law enforcement agencies, the railroad police also utilize special units to handle a variety of emergency situations. This includes the formation S.W.A.T. teams, Special Operations Response Teams, anti-terrorism units, executive protection officers, hazardous materials agents, and even officers trained in medical and firefighting techniques.
As you can see the modern day railroad police officer/special agent is more than just the hired gun from a hundred years ago. Their experience, training, and tactics make the modern day railroad police some of the most capable law enforcement officers in the country.
Steve Featherkile said:
Craig, I’ve never questioned the “how.” That’s easy, just make it so. As the King said, “So it is said, so let it be written.”
What I question is the “why.”
I’ll put my historian hat on and say that the “how” most often points to the “why”. It just takes a bit of looking. So begin by researching the US code that I posted. When was it written? Who passed in Congress? Who signed it into law? What was the political, economic environment at the time? These types of questions generally lead one down the path of “why” by following the “how”. That’s how historians make a living!
Ken Brunt said:
Shawn (napkin builder) Viggiano said:
Locking your doors gives you more peace of mind and that added security.
So does a 9mm Glock on your hip…
I haven’t locked my doors in the 12 years that I’ve lived here.
There’s a Chevy 327 short block hanging on a chain from a tree in my front yard. In Red Neck Speak, that means that there is a big gun that lives at my house. There’s a Ford flathead shortblock down the way, an old Willys across the road, a Dodge up the hill… well, you get the idea. All things considered, its a pretty safe neighborhood.
Railroad cops came in handy during the last Railroad war between the Great Northern Rwy and the Union Pacific RR in the Dechutes River Canyon leading from the Columbia River to middle Oregon. The article makes for an interesting read. According to local legend, but not mentioned in the PC article, is that the RR cops did most of the shooting.
Interesting post, from The Railroad Police site Because they are Naval Infantry, The Marines usually fall outside the Posse Comitatus Act, and can provide limited action to secure Federal property in CONUS, and can go ashore in a foreign nation to rescue American civilians without it being considered an invasion. The Army can do neither of those acts.
UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS MAIL GUARDS
From the book, The Illustrated Directory of the United States Marine Corps
U.S. Mail Robberies
The president had barely settled into his easy chair at the White House when the nation became engulfed in a crime wave capped by armed robberies of the U.S. Mail. Edwin Denby, the only former Marine ever to become Secretary of the Navy called upon 53 officers and 2200 enlisted men of the Marine Corps to keep watch on post offices, railway mail cars, and postal trucks across the country.
After the Marines reached their designated posts, mail robberies came to an abrupt halt. During the four months the Marines stood watch, not a single piece of mail was stolen. Five years later, when mail theft resumed, the Marines returned and put a sudden stop to the robberies.
“You must be brave, as you always are. You must be constantly alert. You must, when on guard duty, keep your weapons in hand and, attacked, shoot and shoot to kill. There is no compromise in this battle with the bandits.” To The Men of the Mail Guard, Edwin Denby, 11 November 1921.
Annual Reports of the Navy Department: Report of the Secretary of the Navy
by United States. Navy Dept
Page 51 - At this writing there are 82 officers and 2083 enlisted men of the Marine Corps
on mail-guard duty. Brig. Gen. Logan Feland, United States Marine Corps, …
Marines as Mail Guards: A Story Of the Roaring '20s
By: Bob Campbell
The history of the United States Marines is nothing if not colorful. From the Mexican War to the Battle of France to the Chosin Reservoir, Marines have earned respect as fighting men. At times the mere presence of Marines has been enough to bring the peace.
One of the more interesting but less well known actions Marines participated in happened in America at a time when there was no FBI and prior to the firm establishment of armed postal inspectors. During the Roaring '20s violent crime was commonplace. Among the institutions hardest hit was the post office. According to the Postmaster General, from April 9, 1920 to April 9, 1921 there were 36 major mail robberies that netted armed perpetrators no less than $6,300,000.
The first response was to arm all outside postal employees. A common arm used in this detail was the Smith and Wesson Model 1917 .45-caliber revolver. These handguns were readily available as surplus from the recent Great War. Guns and ammunition were transferred from the War Department to the post office. The 1917 revolver, a substitute standard handgun of the U.S. Army, was used not only by the U.S. Postal Service but by the United States Border Patrol. In some cases it was issued directly to bank tellers.
Despite the arming of post office employees, $300,000 dollars was stolen from April to October 1921, during which postal employees and a few robbers were slain. The Postmaster General appealed to the president. A special request was delivered to the Secretary of the Navy. Almost immediately, Marines were detailed to the post office to guard trains, trucks, main buildings and isolated transfer stations.
The Marine action was no token show. Nor was it a small scale operation. The Marines were serious, heavily armed, and in a high state of readiness. The original contingent consisted of 53 officers and 2,200 enlisted men dispatched throughout the country. Post office robberies stopped immediately. No one wished to face armed, ready Marines. The first Marine guard action ended in March 1922.
The nation was divided for this purpose into two zones, eastern and western. Dividing lines were clearly marked. Williston, N.D., Green River, Wyo., Denver, Colo., El Paso, Texas and Albuquerque, N.M., were cities considered borders of the Western Mail Guard. Eastern units came from the Expeditionary Force. This crack unit was stationed at Quantico, but two companies were seconded for the mail assignment from Parris Island. Brigadier General Logan Feland commanded the Eastern Zone, which was divided into three areas. The First Regiment covered New York, the Tenth Regiment, Chicago, and the Southern Area was headquartered in Atlanta.
Experience gained in this exercise served veteran Marines well in 1926, when events again called for serious action when a mailtruck driver was brutally murdered in Elizabeth, N.J. President Calvin Coolidge issued an executive order calling for Marines to once again ride the rails and protect the post office. General Smedley Butler, a respected combat Marine, Congressional Medal of Honor holder, and veteran of World War I and various South American guerrilla wars, commanded the Western Mail Guards. Primarily he utilized the 4th Marines, which he spread through 11 states and part of Texas. These Marines soon became familiar sights on mail trucks and trains in the West. Obviously, they were a sobering influence on the criminal element. During the tenure of the Marines as mail guards only one robbery attempt was made – on an empty, unguarded train!
The presence of high-profile Marine guards allowed the post office to operate normally. By January 1927, Marines began to return to their home bases. While the mail guards were welcomed by the population, they had seen no action. By Feb. 18, 1927 all Marines were off guard duty. Many were soon on the way to protect American interests in China and Nicaragua.
In the years between Marine guard actions, the post office hired civilian guards, but no guards were ever as effective at dissuading robbers as the Marines. In comparison to most police agencies the Marines were exceptionally well trained. (Police agencies of the day expected peace officers to come to the job trained!) Just as important, there were no federal police agencies in those days. No one had authority to pursue felons outside of a limited jurisdiction. The Marines were another matter. Most police agencies used the .38 revolver and perhaps a shotgun. My research shows the Marines wisely relied mainly upon two of the finest short-range weapons of all time. The main weapon was the 12-gauge shotgun. These guns were short-barrel Winchester 97s, the estimable “trench guns” of World War I fame, proven in Europe and South America. The other weapon relied upon was the Colt Government Model .45 automatic, a weapon that needs little introduction. This pistol had been widely used in Mexico and Europe with excellent effect. No other pistol combined such excellent stopping power, complete reliability and excellent hit probability in trained hands.
General Logan Feland issued a circular letter on Dec. 13, 1921 that carried instructions for conduct by all Marines on guard duty. The instructions were detailed, including guidelines for passing through Canada. The official title of the detachment was, “US Marines Corps Guard Company, Washington, DC.”
Tactical instructions were explicit. Railroad flares were kept for emergency signaling if the train were attacked. If attacked, all interior lights were to be put out, by gunfire if necessary. Shotguns were to be carried with a full magazine and chamber empty. The Colt .45 was to be carried properly, cocked and locked (hammer back, safety on) with a loaded chamber. The commandant ordered that the military flap holster would be worn with the flap folded back so as not to interfere with a rapid draw from the holster. If not carrying other arms, it was recommended guards keep their hand on the Colt .45 at all times.
The Marines have a long history worthy of praise. This small episode was simply business as usual for them, but it is worth a little attention. Without a shot fired, Marines brought the peace. If we need the Marines again, they are always ready!
Copyright Bob Campbell
Military Trader, December 2001 Issue
Reprinted by Permission
Submitted to our website by Matt C. Nation
His grandfather, James Oliver Nation, was one of the marines assigned to this duty.
Steve Featherkile said:
Ken Brunt said:
Shawn (napkin builder) Viggiano said:
Locking your doors gives you more peace of mind and that added security.
So does a 9mm Glock on your hip…
I haven’t locked my doors in the 12 years that I’ve lived here.
There’s a Chevy 327 short block hanging on a chain from a tree in my front yard. In Red Neck Speak, that means that there is a big gun that lives at my house. There’s a Ford flathead shortblock down the way, an old Willys across the road, a Dodge up the hill… well, you get the idea. All things considered, its a pretty safe neighborhood.
Railroad cops came in handy during the last Railroad war between the Great Northern Rwy and the Union Pacific RR in the Dechutes River Canyon leading from the Columbia River to middle Oregon. The article makes for an interesting read. According to local legend, but not mentioned in the PC article, is that the RR cops did most of the shooting.
Haha I had a feeling you didn’t but if you lives in Camden NJ you would
Craig Townsend said:
Steve Featherkile said:
Craig, I’ve never questioned the “how.” That’s easy, just make it so. As the King said, “So it is said, so let it be written.”
What I question is the “why.”
I’ll put my historian hat on and say that the “how” most often points to the “why”. It just takes a bit of looking. So begin by researching the US code that I posted. When was it written? Who passed in Congress? Who signed it into law? What was the political, economic environment at the time? These types of questions generally lead one down the path of “why” by following the “how”. That’s how historians make a living!
That certainly establishes the “Why” of the 1860-80’s, but does that carry forth to now, or is it just, “the way we’ve always done it.” I put on my historian hat, too, and like to ask uncomfortable questions… I drove my professors nuts, still do… Like I said earlier, I’ve come to peace with it being the better of the alternatives…
Now this is interesting, I wonder if this is still in force… Check out Paragraph 2 on the second page, the RR cops derive their authority from the USRA, but are paid by the various railraods.
Both documents found at http://therailroadpolice.com
No…that expired back when the USRA did…it says “has charge of police work of the Railroad Administration”… There were Bulls around long before the USRA. The answer in short is the railroads themselves decided it was a good idea…and at the time had the money and political power to make it happen. The Railroads were considered the back bone of the country, and organization above and beyond industries as they are known today. These are the same people that came up with the idea of emminent domain, and could snatch yer farm away and pay you a pittance for it “for the greater good” and folks let them. Railroad men were the rock stars and sports heros of all the small towns along the lines, and the ribbons of steel were the life line for many a community. Gotta remember back in the days of the Empire Builders, they had their fingers in all industries and bankrolled lots of politicians.