Large Scale Central

Ownership of Bachmann and mfg. same?

General Discussion
#21

thomas prevost said:

“… Bachmann views any money saved is earned money. They feel they can get away with this [reliability problems] as they tend to market mostly to the toy buyers and not the high end hobbiest.”

Thomas has made the challenge clear: Is it an essential characteristic of the toy market the product purchased has a higher acceptance rate when broken, when fails to operate, or slowly becomes inoperable?

Secondly, do customers (us) of Bachmann large scale locos and rolling stock think of their purchases as “toys?” If so, then why are we complaining about the poor reliability?

Does a “toy” declaration, either by customers, retailers, or manufacturers, protect any of them on the sales ladder from claims of “poor product reliability?”

We likely have all heard the soothing expression: “Don’t worry it was only a toy.”

Thomas may be right.

#22

A quote passed along to me by the person it was made to:

“You stupid Americans. Playing with toys while we industrious Chinese are making money”.

Says it all about attitudinal deficiency.

TOC

#23

Wendell,

under consumer rights laws one anticipates a fair and reasonable life from their purchase. A refrigerator or a washing machine typically would be expected to last around ten years before replacement is required.

As regards ‘toys’, well the same consumer laws apply but the life expectancy is, I fear, far less. While Bachmann reined in their prices then failure was an acceptable factor in any purchase. The item was ‘cheap enough’. With current high prices, failure is NOT an option. The expectation is that Bachmann has grown out of the cheap toy market and is now producing world quality goods. Consumers have short memories when the price was cheap enough, but really long memories when an item is expensive.

#24

Another quote, from the same source, of the same person, back when we had the brand new Shay and no parts…

“We are not in the parts business. We make them cheap enough, when it breaks, buy a new one”.

Lots of folks don’t realize the stuff I’ve been through, the information that has come my way, and why I look at these things differently than someone who decides eight hundred bucks is suddenly a good deal.

You need to be ever vigilant. Jump up and confront anybody who wants “mandated on-board” anything. Takes away your choice. Or maroons who want top speed of 24v to cater to the slot trains crowd.

THAT is backing us into “toy trains” away from the adherence to scale and prototype once, not long ago, promoted by many.

TOC

#25

Tim and Dave-

Your analysis is on-target that the “toy” perception is owned by Bachman – independent of the user (us) and their perceptions. Yes, price does dictate a perception and expectation of intended quality – both by the producer AND the consumer. However, when high quality expectations fight the perception of the manufacturer, then problems – just as we have experienced them.

Imagine my $850 SLR Canon camera assembled with the level of craftsmanship corporately required if seen as a Bachmann toy.

PLEASE READ ON…

“What? A quirky plastic locomotive with a $22 motor just sold for the same price as an intricate, superb digital camera with endlessly superb quality reviews.”

Is there a story KATO, ATLAS, and Broadway Limited would tell readers of this site that Bachmann has failed to hear?

#26

Wendell, Quote: “Is there a story KATO, ATLAS, and Broadway Limited would tell readers of this site that Bachmann has failed to hear?”

Wendell,

I feel you keep referring to Bachmann as the manufacturer for other brandname companies when I believe it is Kader that is the manufacturer at source. I feel that Bachmann Industries, while owned by Kader, are as much a contractor to Kader as are all the other companies that use Kader to manufacture their goods.

As I have stated several times, both a consumer and a model train company get what they pay for. A high end manufacturer will demand (and pay for) additional QC methods to ensure continued relibility of their product and to maintain their reputation in the marketplace. When Bachmann ‘contracts’ to Kader to a production run then the end product is a result of the requirements of the contractor, not of the manufacturer. You contract bottom end budget per unit prices and you get comparable quality (or lack there of).

#27

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/5983/about-the-forums

#28

David Russell said:

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/5983/about-the-forums

So, who is being obnoxious? Most of the participants were charter members here after LySOL blew up. They know each other.

Friendly bantering among friends is normal.

Go hang up your Junior Internet Police Badge.

TOC

#29

Wendell,

There are those who - when someone challenged the scale question or other shortcomings - as a matter of course stated (probably still state): “They are all just toys!”

If the consumer (they are all just toys) then starts to expect a model instead of a “cheap” toy because of the increasing price, well then it is time for a reality check! You can’t have it both ways; first accepting sub-par quality when the stuff was being flogged, but automatically expecting better quality when the price climbs.

As I said: reality check!

@ Rooster You’re excused since you really haven’t been around long enough. BTW did those smirks get exchanged for smilies?

:slight_smile: :slight_smile:

#30

Curmudgeon mcneely said:

David Russell said:

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/5983/about-the-forums

So, who is being obnoxious? Most of the participants were charter members here after LySOL blew up. They know each other.

Friendly bantering among friends is normal.

Go hang up your Junior Internet Police Badge.

TOC

Dave

I have actually been here since 2000 lurking when LSC started…have learned A LOT from you as well sir but have stayed true to this forum. No Internet Police Badge here my friend only my calming place to discuss a hobby we all share and trying to obey the webmasters rules the best I know how to or have been taught.

Fair enough?

…(http://www.freethoughtnation.com/components/com_comment/joscomment/emoticons/funny/images/smile.png)…

#31

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:

Wendell,

There are those who - when someone challenged the scale question or other shortcomings - as a matter of course stated (probably still state): “They are all just toys!”

HJ,

I recall many years ago when the Big Train Operator forum was in vogue that a comment was made inferring that LGB were merely “toys”. I was adamant that they were models and not simply toys. Of cause, in time I came to understand that no matter how expensive they were, they were afterall merely TOYS.

#32

David Russell said:

Curmudgeon mcneely said:

David Russell said:

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/5983/about-the-forums

So, who is being obnoxious? Most of the participants were charter members here after LySOL blew up. They know each other.

Friendly bantering among friends is normal.

Go hang up your Junior Internet Police Badge.

TOC

Dave

I have actually been here since 2000 lurking when LSC started…have learned A LOT from you as well sir but have stayed true to this forum. No Internet Police Badge here my friend only my calming place to discuss a hobby we all share and trying to obey the webmasters rules the best I know how to or have been taught.

Fair enough?

…(http://www.freethoughtnation.com/components/com_comment/joscomment/emoticons/funny/images/smile.png)…

It is generally considered rude and obnoxious to point out those things, especially when they may or may not be the pointer-outers viewpoint of what is applicable.

Go read the link again.

No place does Bob encourage us to police each other…rather ourselves.

"Those of you who have been coming in for a while, even if you haven’t joined in any of the conversations (lurkers), you know that we have an eclectic set of regulars. You may or may not agree with everything that guy in the corner booth says, but you can safely ignore him. "

“I don’t care if you and another member of the site don’t get along. Keep it private.”

When we discuss specific bits, like axles, gears, wheels, that is a whole lot different than when Bob says “Don’t say Aristo Sucks”.

The information is given so you and others know what to do, or why something quits running.

A whole lot of time and research has gone into issues with about every manufacturer, not so it can sit in files somewhere, but can be shared.

Personally, I think there are morons on every website open to the public, or private, for that mater. Morons I try not to even acknowledge. Those who say things because (obviously) they don’t know…I take the time for history…and the necessary fixes to get them back on the road.

TOC

#33

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:

@ Rooster You’re excused since you really haven’t been around long enough.

Actually Hans… I have you just failed to notice ?

#34

Curmudgeon mcneely said:

David Russell said:

Curmudgeon mcneely said:

David Russell said:

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/5983/about-the-forums

So, who is being obnoxious? Most of the participants were charter members here after LySOL blew up. They know each other.

Friendly bantering among friends is normal.

Go hang up your Junior Internet Police Badge.

TOC

Dave

I have actually been here since 2000 lurking when LSC started…have learned A LOT from you as well sir but have stayed true to this forum. No Internet Police Badge here my friend only my calming place to discuss a hobby we all share and trying to obey the webmasters rules the best I know how to or have been taught.

Fair enough?

…(http://www.freethoughtnation.com/components/com_comment/joscomment/emoticons/funny/images/smile.png)…

It is generally considered rude and obnoxious to point out those things, especially when they may or may not be the pointer-outers viewpoint of what is applicable.

Go read the link again.

No place does Bob encourage us to police each other…rather ourselves.

"Those of you who have been coming in for a while, even if you haven’t joined in any of the conversations (lurkers), you know that we have an eclectic set of regulars. You may or may not agree with everything that guy in the corner booth says, but you can safely ignore him. "

“I don’t care if you and another member of the site don’t get along. Keep it private.”

When we discuss specific bits, like axles, gears, wheels, that is a whole lot different than when Bob says “Don’t say Aristo Sucks”.

The information is given so you and others know what to do, or why something quits running.

A whole lot of time and research has gone into issues with about every manufacturer, not so it can sit in files somewhere, but can be shared.

Personally, I think there are morons on every website open to the public, or private, for that mater. Morons I try not to even acknowledge. Those who say things because (obviously) they don’t know…I take the time for history…and the necessary fixes to get them back on the road.

TOC

I apologize and I will return to my corner then

#35

Bachmann discussion has run its course.