Mr.Hanks;
They are two much different locomotives. The LGB Mogul is supposed to be 1:22.5 scale, while the B’mann one is 1:20.3. The LGB Mogul was a later model. The two only really have the wheel arrangement in common.
The B’mann locomotive, looks “Relatively” good with the B’mann, and probably LGB rolling stock (Passenger cars), (1:22.5), because the prototype B’mann locomotive was a rather small locomotive in real life, while the LGB Mogul was a bit larger.
Do your research, and you can find out this information, and along with the provided pictures, here; make up your mind.
The B’mann C19, is another locomotive that (Except for purists), looks OK with 1:22.5 equipment, in spite of it being 1:20.3 scale. There was a C19 in one of the shots…
As far as the question, on whether this is the last “Spectrum” 1:20.3 locomotive to be produced by Bachmann…I would speculate, that they will decide, by how sales of this latest model go…it seems to be a slowly dying market…and they are in business to make money.
Fred,
Thanks for your response.
Research here in So. California, by actually seeing and comparing is limited to two remaining shops that may have in stock this loco. A call gave the response, “We can order one”. Yes, I can carry my LGB Mogul into the other of the two and ask to see a size comparison when they “get one”.
I think I have a conclusion: My guess is this model is a revised version of what I have seen in the Bachmann catalogues. - new drive with same body shell. Unfortunately, it is not larger than a LGB Mogul – which is what I would want. Accurate?
Marketing garden railroading in Southern California – the land of the longest growing season – is virtually defunct. Zero efforts to sell yard animation in So. California yards in garden magazines and photos showing garden RRs displayed in nurseries.
Its not larger? Its longer. But it won’t dwarf the LGB Mogul, as stated, they are from 2 different eras.
Kevin Strong said:
It has an all new drive (brass gears), new electronics, including new track pick-ups in the tender, optical chuff triggers, and the plug-and-play socket in the tender beneath the coal/wood load.
Thanks for the information Kevin, and Stan, the pictures. Sounds good.
I’ll be keeping my eye on a certain Ebay trader for now. He’s got a couple on there but they are a bit pricey for now what with the $/£ exchange rate and the newness of this product.
As said before Bachmann will produce in 1:20.3 if the market is there. Looks like so long as there are plausible and marketable re-liveries of existing products, with a modicum of re-tooling, then the will is there. I suppose one needs to look at the base chassis of locos and rolling stock and see what can be adapted economically with new superstructures. I wonder what the minimum run lengths are now with current production methods ? The Chinese are getting quite adept with quick cure resin molding. Max.
“Larger?”
Depends on which way you want to look at things. The Bachmann 2-6-0 is built to a larger scale than the LGB mogul, however, it’s a model of a lighter prototype than the LGB mogul’s prototype, thus the two models are very similar in size.
In practical terms, the Bachmann mogul is longer than the LGB, having unequal spacing between the drivera due to its being an older wood-burning design where the firebox sits between the drivers. LGB and Bachmann moguls are the same overall width, though the Bachmann mogul looks narrower due to its tapered wagon-top boiler and narrower running boards. Also, the Bachmann tender is lower and narrower than the LGB tender, giving it a smaller appearance. Bachmann mogul is taller than the LGB mogul at the stack and over the tops of the domes, but again, the narrower boiler gives the illusion that the LGB mogul is larger.
The Bachmann mogul is the locomotive which is responsible for me converting from 1:24 to 1:20.3 modeling. When I saw it, it had such a presence about it; a visual mass that despite it being similar in overall size to the LGB mogul just–to my eyes–dwarfed it and the 1:22 and 1:24 models I had been running.
Later,
K
Max Winter said:
One of my favourites from Bachmann. I picked an earlier one up in the UK 8 years ago for $140 brand new and boxed from a dealer getting out of large scale. Was just passing by on my rounds. Would love to get the D&RG new version. What have they changed ?
Max
Great photo.
From your photo you can see that the first generation Bachman 2-6-0 and the new 2-6-0 are models of the same locomotive. A lot has changed since the first generation was first produced and Bachmann spend a lot of time and effort to bring the locomotive up to date,
Lets start with the tender.
The most visible change is the coal and wood loads which are much larger to allow for RC and DCC boards to be plugged into the plug and play socket in the tender. I am particularity fond of the wood load which is the most realistic I have seen on any model from any manufacturer.
While that is the most visible change most of the molds have been changed.
The trucks are totally new and are metal. Gone are the old pickups which are replaced with axle pickup bearings like was done in the C-19.
The rear coupler is now a body mount with long shank to go around tight curves. Because of the new coaches the locomotive is shipped with a low coupler installed and a high coupler is included in the extra parts bag.
The brackets holding the rear step are also now metal.
Speakers in Bachmann locomotives in the past have only been 1W which often required replacement for any serious sound system. The 2-6-0 has a more powerful speaker and works well with all the sound systems I have tried, including Phoenix
The tender shell also now has a rain guard to protect the electronics in the tender. The Tuesday before the NNGC we had a mini session for the Narrow Gauge Downunder group during the rain and I can report that the rain guard work well.
Stan
Wendell Hanks said:
Kevin or Stan, or…
Two questions:
Is this locomotive the last “Spectrum 1:20” being produced by Bachmann?
Compared to a LGB Mogul, is this one larger or smaller? Any chance for a comparative side-by-side photo of the two?
Thanks,
Wendell
Wendell
I expect Bachmann will continue to produce 1:20.3 models as market conditions allow.
Below is a side by side photo of the new Bachmann 2-6-0 next to an LGB 2-6-0. For this photo the rear of both tenders was lined up.
The LGB 2-6-0 with plow is a little longer then the Bachmann 2-6-0. They are about the same height. The widest part of both locomotives is the cylinders.
The LGB loco is about 4 1/8" wide, the Bachmann loco is about 4 1/2" wide.
The smokestack of the LGB loco with spark arrester is 3/4" taller then the Bachmann stack
Hope that Helps
Stan
So the engine is longer on the Bachmann, but the tender is shorter. Huh, I didn’t realize that
Stan Ames said:
. . .
The rear coupler is now a body mount with long shank to go around tight curves. Because of the new coaches the locomotive is shipped with a low coupler installed and a high coupler is included in the extra parts bag.
. . . . .Stan
OK Stan. What do you know that we don’t know ? “Because of the new coaches the locomotive is shipped with a low coupler” ?? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)
The 1:22.5 coaches have lower couplers, and that is what is shipped “new” with the locomotive. Why Bachmann would opt for a higher coupler mount, when so many out here already use the KaDee standard height, is beyond me.
Why does the entire Thomas line and Lil Big Hauler lines have LGB incompatible couplers standard, either because who ever is working on them in China must not give a fig about interbrand compatibility even with product from their own company or they are working in a sealed vault not allowed to discuss little things like that.
Pete Thornton said:
Stan Ames said:
. . .
The rear coupler is now a body mount with long shank to go around tight curves. Because of the new coaches the locomotive is shipped with a low coupler installed and a high coupler is included in the extra parts bag.
. . . . .Stan
OK Stan. What do you know that we don’t know ? “Because of the new coaches the locomotive is shipped with a low coupler” ?? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)
Pete
Sorry for the confusion. Bachmann painted a Big Hauler combine and coach to match each of the 4 new LS 2-6-0 locomotives.
These are the “New Coaches” I was referring to.
Stan
David Maynard said:
The 1:22.5 coaches have lower couplers, and that is what is shipped “new” with the locomotive. Why Bachmann would opt for a higher coupler mount, when so many out here already use the KaDee standard height, is beyond me.
David
Bachmann’s “High Coupler” IS at the Kadee Height. This height is used on all their 1:20.3 rolling stock and locomotives starting with the K27. To maintain compatibility with their Big Hauler line, which is at the LGB hook and loop height, the locomotives and cars also come with low couplers.
While the locomotive has a lot of new molds, the coaches are repaints with no change other then the paint. Thus the decision for the locomotive to ship with low couplers. It is relatively easy to install the supplied high “kadee Height” coupler.
Stan
Stan,
Thank you for the posting of a comparison photo and dimensions. Comparison photos are the only way those of us who order by internet can actually have some sort of comparison. The LGB Mogul is a highly available means for comparison. Five train stores in LA area that would carry what was “new” in large scale are now defunct.
Wendell
Stan Ames said:
David Maynard said:
The 1:22.5 coaches have lower couplers, and that is what is shipped “new” with the locomotive. Why Bachmann would opt for a higher coupler mount, when so many out here already use the KaDee standard height, is beyond me.
David
Bachmann’s “High Coupler” IS at the Kadee Height. This height is used on all their 1:20.3 rolling stock and locomotives starting with the K27. To maintain compatibility with their Big Hauler line, which is at the LGB hook and loop height, the locomotives and cars also come with low couplers.
While the locomotive has a lot of new molds, the coaches are repaints with no change other then the paint. Thus the decision for the locomotive to ship with low couplers. It is relatively easy to install the supplied high “kadee Height” coupler.
Stan
Ok, my mistake. Since I use the KaDee 831 on those cars, and it lines right up with the KaDee height gauge, I forgot that it was an offset coupler. The shank is mounted to the bottom of the knuckle assembly.
Pete
Sorry for the confusion. Bachmann painted a Big Hauler combine and coach to match each of the 4 new LS 2-6-0 locomotives.
These are the “New Coaches” I was referring to.
Stan
Huh. When do we get some 1:20.3 coaches that would look correct with that nice loco, I ask ? Wasn’t there a discussion on the B’mann forums about them some years ago?
Kevin has addressed some of the upgrades Bachmann did on their new Sprectrum 2-6-0 series of models. I thought it might be useful to go over a few done on the locomotive.
The most important changes are the frame and drive train.
All three drivers are now sprung allowing the locomotive suspension to go over uneven track. To allow the locomotive to navigate tight radius curves the center driver is raised by a spacer on the bottom plate so that the center driver just touches the track. This allows the locomotive the navigate R1 curves. However on R1 curves the center driver is so far off the track that it will cause a short on most R1 turnouts. So if you are using track power Bachmann has recommended 5 Ft diameter or R2 as the minimum radius.
If you have larger curves you can remove the spacer under the center driver so that all three drivers provide equal pressure on the track. On the C-19 this increases the pulling power by about one car. I have not done this yet on a 2-6-0 to measure any increase.
All the gears are now metal and a fan has been installed to help cool the motor extending motor life.
All of the electrical components in the locomotive are new including new pickups on each driver, optical sensors in each piston and larger gauge wire throughout. The front headlight has also been replaced with the more prototypical light from the C-19.
Per the prototype two of the models have a wood pilot as in the first release. The other two have a new strap iron pilot. The smokestacks also reflect a coal or wood fired locomotive.
The most noticeable visible change and my favorite addition is that the 3 as-built locomotives have crosshead pumps. The 1870s was a time before lifting injectors were invented. To inject water in the boiler the locomotives of the day used crosshead water pumps. Most locomotives had these removed by the early 1900s. An interesting side note is that the locomotives at Disneyworld still use crosshead pumps.
Per prototype practice the Glenbrook has its pump on the engineer’s site, the Reveille on the fireman’s side and the Raton on both sides.
Air brakes were also not invented yet in the 1870s so all three as built locomotives only have tender hand brakes and no engine brakes. The brakes on the Emma Nevada have also been moved to their correct location for that prototype.
Last but not least the drawbar was also redesigned to provide both a more prototypical close coupling to the tender or a longer distance for tight radius curves.
Stan
I have never wanted this locomotive, but now after seeing all these pictures and read about all the improvements I think I will be adding one to my collection.
Thanks for making me spend money…