Big John,
Bachmann is the driver in the On30 market… It was dead until they started bring out product…
Tim,
I heard that the Railtruck & Davenport are selling like hot cakes… Hope to get a Davenport before long…
I don’t know if the Railtruck was considered a success. They were closing them out and selling them rather cheap a few months ago.
I was going to buy one, but they sold out by the time I was ready to order.
But I would like one, and a Davenport too.
The big loco’s are nice. However, I am like many others with R1 curves, SOL.
Ralph
Bachmann seem to be backing themselves into a hole with their production choices. The ‘downfall’ commenced with a Mexican consolidation and then what would have been my favourite, the Vulcan. I believe that only seven Vulcan prototypes were manufactured of which only two or three were narrow-gauge models. Next came the railtruck with only one prototype ever made. The ‘K’ being the exception and has proven to be a popular model, albeit with the usual production criticisms. This year’s offering is a locomotive that was not even built.
Mr. Riley succombed to the Colorado masses with the railtruck and the ‘K’ production. I assume the mallet was a east coast design. If Bachmann want a model that will appeal, then how could they go past the ‘T’ boilered Shay. It would fill all their criteria as regards a popular logging lokie. They already have the design work done on the On’30’ release and yet have been extremely quiet on the topic. Realistically, the mallet would have cost close to one million dollars to design, tool and manufacture, with a question mark over a financial return. One must really wonder how decisions are made at board room level.
I know that a ‘T’ boiler Shay would entice me back into the purchase of another B’mann product. I really think that B’mann need to concentrate on Fn3 rolling stock and leave locomotive production to the experts (or at least listen to their public when decisions are being made). I am aware of the very vocal outcry demanding a ‘K’ series locomotive, but believe that this vocal crowd were a minority. There is a similar following for an EBT Mikado, so does that mean an east coast Mikado as well? B’mann missed the EBT boat, with several manufacturers coming onto the market, with both electric and live steam versions.
B’mann really need to get back to their roots and concentrate on another logging lokie, not another huge, lumbering contraption. Many do not have the ‘resources’ to run a large locomotive.
Some may see the railtruck as a ‘success’ (I did buy two out of curiosity), but my measure of a success is an instant sellout and not a firesale sellout to rid wharehouses of unwanted oversupplied stock. Even the newly released, repainted 4-4-0 locomotives went directly to a firesale, along with the 3-truck Shay. There are still a huge number of 'K’s around awaiting the inevitable firesale. An internal view of the Davenport reminded me of a rebodied railtruck, surely not the mark of a well engineered product. The Davenoport should have had a well designed ‘brick’ drive unit, not a puny motor driving a few exposed gears.
Tim Brien said:And I'm one of the potential fire sale buyers. I've never paid street price for any of my locos except Annies. If I can get a K for near what I paid for my Connie (Under $200) then there will be one on my layout. At fire sale prices I don't mind fixing problems.
[i][/i] There are still a huge number of 'K's around awaiting the inevitable firesale.
k’s are going for $577 on evil bay this last week John, I too am hoping some disgruntled owner will let me take it off theyre hands for alot less but i fear we will never see the $200 mark broken but we can always hope. The Regalhttp://
(www.lscdata.com/users/blueregal/_forumfiles/pot%20at%20end%20of%20rainbow.jpg)
Or maybe there really is a pot at the end of the rainbow eh?
Even if I had the money, I would never buy anything at “fresh off the production line” prices. I’ll always wait to get it at a more reasonable “street” price.
Quote:Baldwin was pimping articulateds to any railroad who would listen in the 1920s; east coast, west coast--didn't matter. The loco has many of the features common to standard gauge logging articulateds built by Baldwin which ran primarily in the Pacific Northwest. By that argument, one could say the loco is "west coast," but they would have built the same thing for any customer no matter where they were located. It is decidedly not a "Colorado" locomotive.
... Mr. Riley succombed to the Colorado masses with the railtruck and the 'K' production. I assume the mallet was a east coast design.
Quote:The T-boiler would be popular, but I wonder if Accucraft's version (at $1500) wasn't too close to what their MSRP might have to be to warrant producing it. It's one thing to produce a plastic locomotive at a quarter (or less) the price of the brass version, but if you're only undercutting by 20%, and you know what the sales of the brass one are, you can fairly realistically gauge how much success you may have. I have no idea if that's what's going on, it's just a theory. I think the Shay would be cool.
... If Bachmann want a model that will appeal, then how could they go past the 'T' boilered Shay. It would fill all their criteria as regards a popular logging lokie. They already have the design work done on the On'30' release and yet have been extremely quiet on the topic.
Quote:Any locomotive would have incurred the same production costs, with the same risk of return. No manufacturer has any guarantees as to how well their products will sell. Risk is always there. Personally, I think the mallet was a good choice, even if it is a "never built" locomotive. When you look at the pages of GR over the years, there are a fair number of people who have kitbashed the various LGB articulateds into similar locomotives. I think it's a prototype that many modelers [i]wish[/i] would have existed. In model railroading, that's as good a reason as any to produce something.
... Realistically, the mallet would have cost close to one million dollars to design, tool and manufacture, with a question mark over a financial return. One must really wonder how decisions are made at board room level.
Quote:Experts? Define the term. If the implication is that the folks at Bachmann are incompetent, I'd have to disagree. They've had their stumbles and curious choices to be certain, but I would certainly not say that deems them unworthy of the ability to produce locomotives. All of my Bachmann electric mice run smoothly, and have an unparalleled level of detail. So far as listening to their public, I seem to recall it was public outcry that got the Vulcan project tabled.
... I really think that B'mann need to concentrate on Fn3 rolling stock and leave locomotive production to the experts (or at least listen to their public when decisions are being made).
Quote:The K-27 has proven to be wildly popular in all scales, from Nn3 to Fn3. Colorado narrow gauge is [i]by far[/i] the most common pursuit in narrow gauge modeling. I wouldn't call the K's fans a "minority" by any stretch of the imagination. I think the biggest obstacle with the B'mann K is still the price. Even at $650, it's still a fair chunk of change to have to come up with. It's definitely easier than $4K, but with many locos from Bachmann, USA, and Aristo costing around the $200 - $300 mark, more than twice that is still viewed as a luxury item. People are buying them, but they're only buying one of them.
... I am aware of the very vocal outcry demanding a 'K' series locomotive, but believe that this vocal crowd were a minority. There is a similar following for an EBT Mikado, so does that mean an east coast Mikado as well? B'mann missed the EBT boat, with several manufacturers coming onto the market, with both electric and live steam versions.
I don’t think Bachmann “missed the EBT boat.” There’s a huge difference in target market for a $3K locomotive as opposed to a $600 one. The people who shell out 4-figures for a single locomotive are (a) fanatical about the prototype, and (b) financially situated to do so. There are lots of people who satisfy “a,” but who don’t meet “b” and need to wait for a cheaper plastic version. Also, the cheaper plastic version appeals to a wider audience, not just those who are nuts about the prototype. With a lower price, people can buy the loco simply because it appeals to them in an aesthetic sense. They don’t need to love the prototype.
Having said that, I don’t know that I see an EBT mikado coming out of Philly in the near future. I think Bachmann is trying to again appeal to the smaller radius, smaller space crowd, and a 2-8-2, even with blind center drivers, isn’t going to do that. The mid-sized EBT mikados are on par with the K-27 in terms of size, which is really too big to fit visually on my railroad. I think we’d be more likely to see something like the M-1 (Gas-electric motorcar) before we saw an EBT mikado. It would have great appeal to a fairly broad market, not just EBT fans. It would also be a nice way to whet the appetites for future EBT releases. No, I’m not holding my breath.
Quote:I agree about the resources, (i.e, space) but I think there are plenty of smaller narrow gauge locos that would make great fodder without necessarily going back to logging locos. An inside-frame 2-6-0 or 2-8-0 would be ideal, and quite generic enough to closely match locos that ran on a number of narrow gauge lines. Like the T-boilered Shay example above, Bachmann already has the On30 drawings for a 2-6-0 which would be fantastic in 1:20.
... B'mann really need to get back to their roots and concentrate on another logging lokie, not another huge, lumbering contraption. Many do not have the 'resources' to run a large locomotive.
Quote:The disadvantage of moving every loco to a fire sale is that the consumers know what's coming. If the locomotive isn't a "must have," why would I pay full price when I know it's going to come down in 6 - 12 months' time? We all love bargains.
... Some may see the railtruck as a 'success' (I did buy two out of curiosity), but my measure of a success is an instant sellout and not a firesale sellout to rid wharehouses of unwanted oversupplied stock. Even the newly released, repainted 4-4-0 locomotives went directly to a firesale, along with the 3-truck Shay. There are still a huge number of 'K's around awaiting the inevitable firesale.
Quote:I really disagree with this assesment. The "puny" motor and gears in the Davenport are more substantial than the gears that drive the Heisler and Shay (and likely the Climax, 45-tonner, etc, but I've not had them open on my workbench to verify). With ball-bearing journals and sturdy gears, I found the mechanics of the locomotive to be some of the best that's come out of Philly. There's no reason for it to have to be a self-contained motor block.
... An internal view of the Davenport reminded me of a rebodied railtruck, surely not the mark of a well engineered product. The Davenoport should have had a well designed 'brick' drive unit, not a puny motor driving a few exposed gears.
I don’t know what drives Bachmann’s (or any manufacturer’s) production plans. All we can do is speculate, scratch our heads, and wonder “what if.” I personally think both the Davenport and the new articulated fill a niche in the hobby and will be rather well received. Would either of them have been my choice? No. Would my choices have been better? Who knows? Until any one of us ponies up the production and tooling costs ourselves, we’re at others’ mercy.
I’m fine with that.
Later,
K
Kevin Strong said:I hope so! I'd like to see some more small locos available. And I'd love to see a T-boiler Shay, but I agree it would have to be significantly less than Accucraft's to have any hope of selling.
I think Bachmann is trying to again appeal to the smaller radius, smaller space crowd...