Tom Stephens said:
I would be interested in a sound card for my light industrial loco, but not at $80.
I only paid $110 for the loco.
Tom
Exactly Greg’s point.
Tom, would you buy it at $45?
There is no DCC debate, I never once in this this thread said to use DCC.
I said for small locos, you could use a DCC decoder in DC MODE, i.e. battery power or track power.
I see that as valid competition for your sound unit, with many more features.
I was trying to be helpful, thinking that the expense to develop the product might not pay off because I think your product needs to be less expensive, and there is valid competition from this alternative that can do everything yours does and much more.
At your price point, paying $85 in a small loco does not seem to be a big market if all it does is sound.
I tried to answer your question, honestly, this is an open forum and you should be prepared for all answers. Clearly some people believe disagreement is grounds for name calling (Thanks Tony)…
Greg
Greg.
I could not find ZIMO MX640 decoders listed anywhere.
I could only find ZIMO sound decoders on sale at Coastal DCC in the UK for around GBP 99 = to about US$ 176. Not what I would call competitively priced.
Perhaps you would care to back up your claim of a DCC sound decoder that can run on DC/Battery R/C with three triggerable sounds and provide us with a source of supply and pricing.
Tony, the MX645 programmable Zimo decoder is available at $85 US from Trainli.com here in the USA.
We will load and configure the sound at a users request. I saw several dealers advertised for 85 to 99 eur.
There are some files that were not written by Zimo and are called coded programs and are $25 extra.
Note that this is a 3 watt audio amp, 1.2 amp with a 2.5 amp 20 second overload, 35 volt (50 volt peak) HO decoder.
Thanks Dan.
So are those decoders triggerable by either trackside detection or R/C triggers?
Peter has never mentioned a price, that $85 was a Zimo benchmark…
I’d rather hear about his sound card than read what others think he should do or how much he should charge.
Since he is an experienced business man in our hobby already, I bet he has a grasp on the market.
My first question; Will they be stereophonic or mono? I dislike one sound stopping for another …
The current price shown online for mylocosound products is $79.
John Caughey said:
Peter has never mentioned a price, that $85 was a Zimo benchmark…
I’d rather hear about his sound card than read what others think he should do or how much he should charge.
Since he is an experienced business man in our hobby already, I bet he has a grasp on the market.
My first question; Will they be stereophonic or mono? I dislike one sound stopping for another …
John
If you go to G Scale Graphics web site as suggested by My Loco Sound as the place to buy there sound cards, you will find a posted price (not just suggested).
https://www.gscalegraphics.net/store/p92/MyLocoSound_Light_Diesel.html
Since he has stated how much they will cost, I think we have the right to make comments about the price.
Features are an important thing to know, but not if they are going to cost me as much or almost as much as my loco cost.
Tom
Tom, I understand your concerns about cost versus features.
What I would like to hear are, exactly what is available from DCC that can do what the MyLocosound can do.
That is, variable engine roar from DC voltage, be it track power or Battery R/C, and have at least three externally triggerable/playable sounds.
The DCC sound decoders would also need to be programmable/adjustable by a device that is inexpensive such as a A$ 12 IR handpiece. It should not require relatively expensive add ons such as DCC system to vary the set programs.
Tom Stephens said:
John Caughey said:
Peter has never mentioned a price, that $85 was a Zimo benchmark…
I’d rather hear about his sound card than read what others think he should do or how much he should charge.
Since he is an experienced business man in our hobby already, I bet he has a grasp on the market.
My first question; Will they be stereophonic or mono? I dislike one sound stopping for another …
John
If you go to G Scale Graphics web site as suggested by My Loco Sound as the place to buy there sound cards, you will find a posted price (not just suggested).
https://www.gscalegraphics.net/store/p92/MyLocoSound_Light_Diesel.html
Since he has stated how much they will cost, I think we have the right to make comments about the price.
Features are an important thing to know, but not if they are going to cost me as much or almost as much as my loco cost.
Tom
Tom,
Perhaps I missed it within the DCC debate. However I see no mention of where Pete Lucas/My Loco Sound suggested that you you go to G Scale Graphics.
“So it made us wonder if there is a demand for these soundcards in North America. We are aware of the Plymouth and GE 25 ton switchers, many of which seem to sound like their bigger brothers. So, the question is, do you run any light industrial diesel or gas locos on your railroad, what are they and are you likely to be interested in a soundcard for them in DCC, analog or radio control?”
Regards
Peter Lucas
MyLocoSound
So me personally, I tend to agree with John and his statement. With regards to his question which Pete Lucas asked to begin with.
Tony, the game you are playing is what we called in government funding a “lockout specification”…
By indicating the programming device has to cost $12 you (on purpose) locked everyone else out because that is a UNIQUE feature.
By writing in a unique feature as a requirement, you “lock out” everyone else.
You don’t want an alternative answer, you want to fight, no longer playing.
by the way, your snide “can’t find the MX640 decoder”:
“p.s. Tony, the Zimo MX640 series has 3 inputs that can trigger sounds… just one of many examples in one of many decoders available.”
Please brush up on your reading skills when you go on the attack.
Greg
Tom Stephens said:
John Caughey said:
Peter has never mentioned a price, that $85 was a Zimo benchmark…
I’d rather hear about his sound card than read what others think he should do or how much he should charge.
Since he is an experienced business man in our hobby already, I bet he has a grasp on the market.
My first question; Will they be stereophonic or mono? I dislike one sound stopping for another …
John
If you go to G Scale Graphics web site as suggested by My Loco Sound as the place to buy there sound cards, you will find a posted price (not just suggested).
https://www.gscalegraphics.net/store/p92/MyLocoSound_Light_Diesel.html
Since he has stated how much they will cost, I think we have the right to make comments about the price.
Features are an important thing to know, but not if they are going to cost me as much or almost as much as my loco cost.
Tom
Curious … a price for a yet to be ‘Offered Here’ sound card? Cards already in production are $79, does that satisfy Dan, who I believe will never be a customer?
I’m building an ‘As cheap as I can’ pick up truck, but if I pull it off and it’s a prize winner, how much it cost, won’t determine the sound it earns… I think I’ll want prize winning sound too.
While there are many who may think as you, I’m thinking the less frugal will welcome a sound card that accurately matches their need.
Let’s have a Happy 4th and remember this (DCC) bickering does not belong in Bob’s living room.
edited last line as it was misdirected, I see the price to be discussed after we see it.
There are a few considerations when using DCC decoders in analog DC environments:
-
Low track voltages. Standalone sound boards (Phoenix, Dallee, MyLocoSound, Sierra) have battery back-ups to keep the sound board functioning when the track voltage drops below the minimum needed for operation. The DCC boards do not, so the sound will drop out when the track voltage gets low. Some decoders allow for easy hook-up of “Keep-Alive” back-ups, but they’re typically not designed to keep things going for more than a few seconds.
-
Linear or Pulse-width-modulation DC. If you’re running PWM, you will need to make sure the decoder you use will actually operate on that kind of signal. Some do, some do not.
-
Installation. The advantage of the stand-alone sound boards is that they are a simple parallel installation to the existing wiring in the locomotive. Hook the board up to the power coming from the track, install a speaker and back-up battery, and you’re off and running. To use the DCC decoder, you must physically install the decoder into the locomotive’s internal wiring. That’s a daunting task for many folks.
-
Programming. Once the board is installed, you still have to program it to get the best performance out of it in the specific locomotive. Volume levels, motor control parameters, BEMF load calibration… that’s all got to be done via a DCC command interface of some variety. Having your dealer pre-program your board only gets you so far.
The reality is that DCC decoders have always had DC compatibility and good sounds, but they’ve not made inroads into the analog DC environment. That’s always been overwhelmingly the playground of folks like Phoenix and MyLocoSound. It’s a niche, and they fill it well.
Now, a few thoughts on cost. Tom (and others) have mentioned a reluctance to put a $100 sound system in a $50 locomotive. “Why would I put an expensive sound system in a cheap locomotive?” My answer would be “why wouldn’t you?” Good sound can make a shoebox an absolute joy to operate on the railroad. Why does what we pay for a locomotive dictate the quality of what we put into it once we acquire it? I would think we’d want anything we buy to run on our railroads to be a pleasurable experience when it runs. Cheap sound is not a pleasurable experience. To me, it doesn’t make a difference whether I paid $2 or $2,000–I want it sound like a million. Sound is every bit a part of the illusion of realism as paint, weathering, and operation. I don’t skimp on those, I’m not going to skimp on sound.
Later,
K
Peter Lucas said:
Over in Europe, MyLocoSound has recently introduced a new low cost soundcard for light industrial diesels. There are lots of that type of loco, mainly on two foot gauge lines, manufactured by Simplex, Ruston Hornsby, Baguley Drewery, Hunslett, Orenstein & Koppel and others. Many of these, plus freelance versions, are available as large scale ready to run or kit models. Most are low cost and hence are very popular and we have been supplying lots of soundcards for them.
So it made us wonder if there is a demand for these soundcards in North America. We are aware of the Plymouth and GE 25 ton switchers, many of which seem to sound like their bigger brothers. So, the question is, do you run any light industrial diesel or gas locos on your railroad, what are they and are you likely to be interested in a soundcard for them in DCC, analog or radio control?
Regards
Peter Lucas
MyLocoSound
Peter
I would like to answer your question. I have small diesel engines. I have sound in one of them.
I would not be interested in adding sound to the other ones I have at MyLocoSound’s price point.
With that said - I will exit this discussion as no good is going to come from it.
Tom
Greg, there is nothing wrong with my reading skills. I could believe you that you had originally said Zimo MX640 series, if only you had not actually edited that particular posting from what you originally wrote said.
I am not playing games with you. All I want from you is to be more honest with our readers.
Peter asked legitimate questions and instead of answering them honestly, you immediately twisted the discussion towards how wonderful DCC is.
Not only that. when faced with a product that is not aimed at the DCC market you immediately accused Peter of DCC bashing.
Yes, being able to program the MyLocosound system with a A$12 remote is unique. A feature no DCC sound decoder can compete with.
Peter is offering something unique and if you want to recommend something else, you will need to come up with facts and figures. Not broad generalisations.
I did look up MX640 and discovered nothing.
So, I am still waiting to read of a DCC sound decoder product that can compete with the specifications of MyLocosound “LITE DIESEL”.
1/2 time?
Forgot to add Beyonce’ was booked for the 4th… Good Lord now we are back to “Article13” again !
Tony, I edited that post to add the ps with the decoder reference for you Tony, since you were too lazy, too lame, or too whatever to look it up for yourself. This argument is because you want to argue, if you really wanted to understand you would get off your duff and look this stuff up for yourself.
Now you accuse me of adding the word series later, i.e. accuse me of lying.
Stuff it…
Greg
Am Radio clip excerpt
Bottom of the 7th and Walsham is up to bat
Kevin Strong said:
There are a few considerations when using DCC decoders in analog DC environments:
Low track voltages. Standalone sound boards (Phoenix, Dallee, MyLocoSound, Sierra) have battery back-ups to keep the sound board functioning when the track voltage drops below the minimum needed for operation. The DCC boards do not, so the sound will drop out when the track voltage gets low. Some decoders allow for easy hook-up of “Keep-Alive” back-ups, but they’re typically not designed to keep things going for more than a few seconds.
Linear or Pulse-width-modulation DC. If you’re running PWM, you will need to make sure the decoder you use will actually operate on that kind of signal. Some do, some do not.
Installation. The advantage of the stand-alone sound boards is that they are a simple parallel installation to the existing wiring in the locomotive. Hook the board up to the power coming from the track, install a speaker and back-up battery, and you’re off and running. To use the DCC decoder, you must physically install the decoder into the locomotive’s internal wiring. That’s a daunting task for many folks.
Programming. Once the board is installed, you still have to program it to get the best performance out of it in the specific locomotive. Volume levels, motor control parameters, BEMF load calibration… that’s all got to be done via a DCC command interface of some variety. Having your dealer pre-program your board only gets you so far.
The reality is that DCC decoders have always had DC compatibility and good sounds, but they’ve not made inroads into the analog DC environment. That’s always been overwhelmingly the playground of folks like Phoenix and MyLocoSound. It’s a niche, and they fill it well.
Now, a few thoughts on cost. Tom (and others) have mentioned a reluctance to put a $100 sound system in a $50 locomotive. “Why would I put an expensive sound system in a cheap locomotive?” My answer would be “why wouldn’t you?” Good sound can make a shoebox an absolute joy to operate on the railroad. Why does what we pay for a locomotive dictate the quality of what we put into it once we acquire it? I would think we’d want anything we buy to run on our railroads to be a pleasurable experience when it runs. Cheap sound is not a pleasurable experience. To me, it doesn’t make a difference whether I paid $2 or $2,000–I want it sound like a million. Sound is every bit a part of the illusion of realism as paint, weathering, and operation. I don’t skimp on those, I’m not going to skimp on sound.
Later,
K
I shouldn’t do this, but I am going to anyway. So you think MyLocoSound is the answer to cheap sound and will sound like a million?!
And you think buying MyLocoSound is not skimping on sound?! Why don’t you use Phoenix sound at three times the price. It should sound a lot better
and I don’t think that is skimping. Your statement sounds more like all the reasons you would not want to use MyLocoSound.
I think MyLocoSound is a good product in it’s place. It is just not for me. I would rather pay $30 or$40 more and get remote control and sound that I find acceptable in a small diesel.
Tom