Large Scale Central

LGB at the local train store

Jack,
you mentioned one run of Morton Salt cars being paid in full by a dealer. EBay experience shows that only one Morton Salt car is considered a collectable. One must assume that it is this car (Cimmaron). Who paid for the remaining production runs of the brandname as they were still being produced up to cessation of production in 2006? First run may have been popular, but subsequent runs did not achieve the same level of success. There are so many Campbells Soup cars on the market today that one wonders who actually purchased them in the first instance. One eBay seller several years ago was selling Campbells Soup cars that were purchased in truck load lots at a heavily discounted price. I wonder who wore the loss on that lot? Depot G is another example. They had the Wilson Bros Circus sets produced and in today’s market you basically cannot give them away. The sound-equipped loco, the Water Car and the Caterpillar flatcar are the only items eagerly sought after. The rest are just ignored. Of course Depot G would have paid up front for the production run, but in hindsight, such a waste of production. Their Coors cars are still sought after so they did some things right.

    When the Europeans do their licenced production runs, typically around 250 units is considered sufficient.  How come American production runs are considerably more, in the region of 1500 - upwards?  The potential market is about the same size on both continents. Are some more gullible than others?


    On a brighter note I did pick up some of the illfated 'lolly' licenced boxcars and cabeese and will  (and have commenced) repainting the boxcars into Rio Grande cars and did strip the cabeese and retained the desireable ball-bearing wheelsets and metal wheels and onsold the basic car with plastic wheels.  I was actually one of the first on Ebay to do this as I saw the value of these items in their parts value.  Similarly,  the American (Athearn?) produced cigar cars for Model Power.  I saw the potential in them by removing the metal wheels and onselling the car with plastic wheels.  It was a win/win situation as consumers got the car much cheaper and I got the metal wheels and in some instances I sold the cars minus the grab rail accessory sets as well (giving me a surplus of spares).  The cars do paint up nicely in real roadnames.  Licenced cars do I suppose give the consumer a chance to get a car at a heavily discounted price and for those skilled at it,  the opportunity to repaint to something else.  It is obvious that there is no intrinsic collector value in these cars,  as the market was saturated,  well in excess of its capacity,  on initial release.

Vic–

Having been in the marketing and product development/management busines for the last 20 years of my career, large dealers and distributors get assaulted by manufacturers/consultants/licenser’s with an astounding array of “this is the best thing since sliced bread” data and market potential assessments. I know because several telephone and computer manufacturers did it to me!!! I would not doubt that a number of things were said/done to establish the “viability” of the “large market opportunity” for continuing the Salt cars in production. Either by “collectors” or idiots… but it is up to the dealer/distributor to understand and really to utilize his/her gut to make a decision to buy …

However as the world tells us about 50% of product originations die in 6 months and 80% of the rest die in less than 2 years. It’s hard to get it right, no matter what product you into… and I don’t care who you are… a winner one day is/can be the loser just as soon as you get to the next offering.

You know what you want…you know what the people you talk to want…or at least say they do… but what you don’t know is what all the other people who are not talking to you right now and maybe never will … well what do they want??? Are you sure???

But hey…I agree… the market for “toy train collectibles” just seems very thin and very specific… just my opinion,everyone is entitiled to hear it and yes, Mozell, worth exactly what it cost you!!!

Mark

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Larry Otis said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Are you sure those aren't Zeppelin or Cigar cars?
HJ, They had the rail zeppelins. The condom cars came with sample packs of the products they were advertising! :) lao
Larry

Swooooosh, the joke went right over your head!


It did! Until I read it a 2nd time. I blame it on the drugs I’ve been taking for my sinus infection! :slight_smile:
LAO

Paul Lambert said:
Speaking of Disney, there's a whole discussion board just for Disney trains. I picked up one of the 800 Accucraft Casey Jr locos a few years back. Obviously it would be of no interest to model railroaders interested in prototypical operations, unless their layout looks like Disneyland. But its a fun display piece (along with the Fantasyland ticket office I found). You might be surprised how many times visitors will get a smile on their face and say "OH LOOK! IT'S CASEY JR!" Except of course my wife, who thinks it just another train filling up the shelfs. :D
Paul where did you get the station from? I got the Casey Jr and the station would be a good companion peice.

BTW WHen I got mine, the drive rods on it were screwed so tightly to the wheels when I tried test running it the wheels binded up and the main gear got burned clean thru by the motor, luckily I was able to dissassemble it, and swap the wheels, both which had gears on the luckily, so now at least it runs again, kinda crappy for a $300 list engine, but it runs. :wink:

Tim Brien said:
Jack, you mentioned one run of Morton Salt cars being paid in full by a dealer. EBay experience shows that only one Morton Salt car is considered a collectable. One must assume that it is this car (Cimmaron). Who paid for the remaining production runs of the brandname as they were still being produced up to cessation of production in 2006? First run may have been popular, but subsequent runs did not achieve the same level of success. There are so many Campbells Soup cars on the market today that one wonders who actually purchased them in the first instance. One eBay seller several years ago was selling Campbells Soup cars that were purchased in truck load lots at a heavily discounted price. I wonder who wore the loss on that lot? Depot G is another example. They had the Wilson Bros Circus sets produced and in today's market you basically cannot give them away. The sound-equipped loco, the Water Car and the Caterpillar flatcar are the only items eagerly sought after. The rest are just ignored. Of course Depot G would have paid up front for the production run, but in hindsight, such a waste of production. Their Coors cars are still sought after so they did some things right.
    When the Europeans do their licenced production runs, typically around 250 units is considered sufficient.  How come American production runs are considerably more, in the region of 1500 - upwards?  The potential market is about the same size on both continents. Are some more gullible than others?


    On a brighter note I did pick up some of the illfated 'lolly' licenced boxcars and cabeese and will  (and have commenced) repainting the boxcars into Rio Grande cars and did strip the cabeese and retained the desireable ball-bearing wheelsets and metal wheels and onsold the basic car with plastic wheels.  I was actually one of the first on Ebay to do this as I saw the value of these items in their parts value.  Similarly,  the American (Athearn?) produced cigar cars for Model Power.  I saw the potential in them by removing the metal wheels and onselling the car with plastic wheels.  It was a win/win situation as consumers got the car much cheaper and I got the metal wheels and in some instances I sold the cars minus the grab rail accessory sets as well (giving me a surplus of spares).  The cars do paint up nicely in real roadnames.  Licenced cars do I suppose give the consumer a chance to get a car at a heavily discounted price and for those skilled at it,  the opportunity to repaint to something else.  It is obvious that there is no intrinsic collector value in these cars,  as the market was saturated,  well in excess of its capacity,  on initial release.</blockquote>

It’s not always the manufacturer of the product that is pushing the person who wants to do a custom run(s). What they will do is say that if you want a custom run here is how many you have to contract for in order for us to make it. I worked for a dealer that had 3 or 4 custom runs of cars made by USA. They weren’t big sellers at all. THey had a custom run of USA engines to go with the rolling stock. Came back from the painter a year late and the color incorrect. He took a bath on the whole thing. No one pushed him to do it.
LAO

Larry,
of course hindsight is a wonderful educational tool, but it is the entrepreneur that takes the gamble and succeeds and the bankrupt who fails. I suppose one just has to read the market correctly to achieve an economic return. Guaranteed subscription, paid up front, is I suppose the way of the future for non-railroad roadname models.

    I was not aware of the complementary USA locomotives to go with the cars.

Victor, The ticket booth was released through the catalog as a limited edition, just like Casey Jr. I believe they were sold as “trinket boxes”. I tracked one down on ebay a year or two back. I just checked and did not see any currently listed, but if you use ebay you could put a watch on it. I did find the following info from the designers.

(http://www.lscdata.com/users/villagerail/_forumfiles/fantasyland.jpg)

FANTASYLAND TICKET BOOTH REPLICA (Casey Jr. Train Station) Disneyland 50th Commemorative Replica by Kevin Kidney & Jody Daily Resin, Metal, and Wood Sculpted by Will Babington Released in Fall 2005. Limited Edition of 1500. © Disney This little building is the reason we did this whole series of vintage Disneyland ticket booths in the first place. In the park since opening day 1955, this little “railroad station” was designed by Bruce Bushman and served as the original ticket booth for the Casey Jr. Circus Train. It has always been one of our favorite architectural treats of Disneyland. Our model is painted in the exact color scheme as it appeared in 1955!