Perhaps you can author it HJ,
Then we could file it under “Fiction” .
John Joseph Sauer said:Tim Brien said:
Larry, exactly the reason I added the east coast to my post as regards stock location. I still like to think of LGBoA as San Diego, even though aware that Freehold exists.JJ,
it is not an obsession that my friend and I have with the boys, for me it is disgust that I feel. A lifetime legacy was handed over to siblings in an apparently healthy state and was allowed to be slowly killed off until nothing remained. Squandered may be an appropriate word as the owners had the toyworld at their feet and by a series of immature business decisions succeeded where even Hitler and Stalin could not. I love my LGB. I have a vast collection and the failure of LGB hurt me deeply. I feel the utmost sympathy for Wolfgang as he was an innocent ‘bystander’ in this whole affair. Even at the worst of the situation it was Wolfgang who preseneted the face of LGB, with no sign of the siblings showing their blushing faces anywhere. Wolfgang will remain an icon to me, but his successors ‘killed off’ the golden goose. Some may put it down to outside business/economic pressures, but lesser toy train manufacturers survived and are growing.Off course I have not brought up the dealings in 2006 freeing up LGBoA from corporate ownership and the subsequent ‘happenings’ between LGB and LGBoA, leading to the current instock quantity of LGB stock on dealers’ shelves. As far as I am aware no non-Marklin destined LGB has been produced since 2006 (apart from the brief interlude that was LGB Mk2 in early 2007). Where did the current stock come from?. There were rumours of container loads of LGB arriving onshore at the time of the collapse. Just rumour mongering, maybe. Of course there would be receipts for the goods received and bank draft statements showing payment in full for goods received. There are such receipts, one would assume.
Tim,Isn’t it rather presumtuous and a bit arrogant to believe that you know how and why things happened the way they did for EPL?
Isn’t it possible that Rolf and Johannes Richter inhereted some of the problems they were dealing with from Wolfgang?
Isn’t it possible that they inhereted a large workforce that they couldn’t trim down due to German Labor laws and a factory that had become a “white elephant” due to the fact that other manufacturers were sourcing out thier production to China?
Your assesment of what happened to EPL is too simplistic and jaded by your emotions.
Marvin,
Please tell us how it really was, we can hardly wait to hear the story right from “the reliable source”. 
John,
if you have the supposed ‘real’ story then by all means share it. I would be intersted to see just how much it varies from my interpretation. The downfall started with the oversupply of licenced production products and even though they did not sell (still vast supplies of new old stock entering the market years later), they still continued along this track and continued to release non-performing licenced products, even until the final hours of production. Is it surprising that it was the gullible ‘collector’ American market that was inundated with these items. I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, really cheap, if interested!!!
LGB supplied the American market with what they thought the market wanted and not what the market clamoured for. End result is now history. The downfall may have begun in Wolfgang's era but the boys led it further down the path to ruin, giving the Europeans what they wanted and the Americans all the Coke, Mortons, Disney, Peanuts, Campbells Soup licenced products, which had minimal appeal and yet accounted for a large proportion of American products.Tim Brien said:
John, if you have the supposed 'real' story then by all means share it. I would be intersted to see just how much it varies from my interpretation. The downfall started with the oversupply of licenced production products and even though they did not sell (still vast supplies of new old stock entering the market years later), they still continued along this track and continued to release non-performing licenced products, even until the final hours of production. Is it surprising that it was the gullible 'collector' American market that was inundated with these items. I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale, really cheap, if interested!!!LGB supplied the American market with what they thought the market wanted and not what the market clamoured for. End result is now history. The downfall may have begun in Wolfgang's era but the boys led it further down the path to ruin, giving the Europeans what they wanted and the Americans all the Coke, Mortons, Disney, Peanuts, Campbells Soup licenced products, which had minimal appeal and yet accounted for a large proportion of American products.</blockquote>Didn’t say I knew what happened- that’s basically what you guys have been doing - presenting your version of history. I’m merely questioning you on how you know your version is the truth! Do you have access to the sales records of all of the American retailers? How do you know which products outsold others? I don’t think your theories hold water and I don’t believe they are based on fact. Got news for you all those great prototypical roadnames out there aren’t exactly setting the world on fire saleswise!
I find the whole premise of this thread repugnant- it’s basic rumor mongering.
And I apologize to Paul who started the thread- I am not referring to you.
Marvin
Perhaps
bobsuggins aka Marvin, JJ, etc. etc. said:will get you in a better frame of mind. ;) :) Usually helps if the drift of the conversation runs counter to one's basic believes. :/
....I will limit my time here in the future.
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:Wish I knew what the heck you're talking about!
MarvinPerhaps
bobsuggins aka Marvin, JJ, etc. etc. said:will get you in a better frame of mind. ;) :) Usually helps if the drift of the conversation runs counter to one's basic believes. :/
....I will limit my time here in the future.
Marvin 
John,
for the past five years LGB listings on eBay have been my passion. Everyday had at least three hours devoted to researching the LGB market available with emphasis on what was and what was not selling. Apart from a few low production item collector items like the polar bear Coke car, the original 2-truck Coke car, several of the Campbells soup cars, the Depot G Coors cars, two of the Wilson Bros Circus cars, original low-volume production MacDonalds car and some Morton Salt, the other licenced collector cars have hit rock bottom. Even the personally signed Ronald MacDonald car rarely sees any consumer interest. The ‘recent’ firesale at Trainworld had an abundance of new ‘old stock’ Coke cars for sale (not the current production as of 2006). Exactly where did these come from? Most likely still wharehoused from circa 1993/4. I know the LGB market and know what is sought after and what is left to the mugs to pick over.
Tim Brien said:So let me understand- your conclusions about the fate of EPL are based on Ebay sales? How did they get Ronald to sign a boxcar?
John, for the past five years LGB listings on eBay have been my passion. Everyday had at least three hours devoted to researching the LGB market available with emphasis on what was and what was not selling. Apart from a few low production item collector items like the polar bear Coke car, the original 2-truck Coke car, several of the Campbells soup cars, the Depot G Coors cars, two of the Wilson Bros Circus cars, original low-volume production MacDonalds car and some Morton Salt, the other licenced collector cars have hit rock bottom. Even the personally signed Ronald MacDonald car rarely sees any consumer interest. The 'recent' firesale at Trainworld had an abundance of new 'old stock' Coke cars for sale (not the current production as of 2006). Exactly where did these come from? Most likely still wharehoused from circa 1993/4. I know the LGB market and know what is sought after and what is left to the mugs to pick over.
John,
my experience with LGB is based on research that I have carried out both on eBay sales, catalogues, press releases, forum sites, so I feel that I have a well-rounded knowlege of the LGB market. A life long interest in LGB and the history of the parent company has also given me some insight.
In so far as Ronald MacDonald signing (autographing) collector cars, well there was around 645 production cars that the man personally signed. Of course we all know Ronald as an immobile character sitting in a MacDonalds store, but he somehow was persuaded to attach his signature. Of course I have not been able to verify the authenticity of the signature and accept that at the time LGB would have not tried to pull a swift one over their customers. No doubt MacDonald's management coerced the immobile character to attach his signature. I have no reason to doubt the authority of MacDonalds or LGB in this instance.Tim
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Sheesh … is it possible that Ronnie McBarf was an early adaptor of the remote signing system that Margaret Atwood developed to relieve the book signing chores? Just asking, just asking!
Side note about “Special Edition Collectables” on Ebay:
New 0-4-0 switcher C&O or GN, sells for $325+/-
New LGB 2-4-0 in typical railroad roadname like Santa Fe, routinely sells for $150 to 200+/-
Same engine, in “Peanuts” livery, has ROUTINELY sold for $75+/-
Coke livery does a little better, with a high point of about $120+/-
So much for those “special editions” …could always repaint them I guess.
The shop I mentioned is Train Town Toy and Hobby in Ashland, VA. http://www.traintowntoyandhobby.com/ Sorry, I can’t recall the owner’s name. Great guy to talk trains with, but you still have to take it with a grain of salt, much like reading the forums. Once you get him started, you better have some time to listen. Like most model railroaders, he has strong opinions, but the facts are usually pretty close to right on. In this case his information is coming from his LGB distributor, and not direct from the factory. He was quick to say he has no direct info on LGBoA. Most of his conversation with his distributor was about Marklin. Everything he brought in was new “old stock”. Stacks of starter sets, so nothing unusual here. Prices were the same as you see on the LGBoA site. He can’t afford to compete with the online discounters, but he offers the personal support you can’t get from online dealers. Some of the comments mentioned the predominance of the licensed Coke, Peanuts, and Disney sets in the American market. That’s precisely what he had brought in. Why? Because most of the sales off the floor are to families who are not typical garden or model railroaders. They just want a big train to set up in the family room and play with the kids. Coke, Peanuts, and Disney trains sell better to this market than a European style set. Small retailers can’t afford to keep too many big ticket items in stock if they are not going to turn over quickly. And the descriminating customers usually know exactly what they want, so he’s happy to do special orders. On a side note Ashland, Virginia is known as “train town” for good reason. The main north/south route for Amtrack goes right through the center of town. The train store is located right on the tracks. Saturday I had the chance to sit on the deck of the coffee shop and watch the trains go by with a friend (HO scaler) who knows way to much about the schedules and types of trains that go by. He was able to point out the “trash train” coming from the North before we could even see it.
(http://www.lscdata.com/users/villagerail/_forumfiles/ashland.jpg)
Victor, I picked up one of the 2-4-0 Coke engines for about $100. I like the way these run, and I could always paint it. On the other hand, that’s the first one visitors pick out to see on the tracks. Perhaps I should get one of those boxcars that play the Coke tune.
Tim, Glad to see I’m not the only one with an addiction to ebay. I’m constantly looking for good deals on things I don’t really need (about 400 over the last five years). Fortunately I’m not locked in on LGB. I check almost daily, but even the used stuff goes higher than I choose to pay. I do feel like I have a good idea about market values on many items. I’m looking for below market value, so I get outbid about 90% of the time, but my wife still thinks I spend too much on Paypal.
On a lighter side…
I guess model railroaders are a bit wilder group than I imagined. Just saw an auction on ebay for:
Marklin Trains Digital Plug and Play Billy Boy Condom
“Honey, let’s go ride the rails…” 
Yes, it’s a real condom. Apparently there was a Billy Boy Condom train car as well. Probably not part of the Marklin “museum” collection. I can only imagine what Marklin might come up with for the LGB “toy trains” line.
Paul.
Marklin did (still) have risque Z and HO pieces. When I was shopping for some Z with my daughter a few years back it kind of shocked me when I saw a couple of the condom cars. Luckily the daughter didn’t see it and ask questions.
LAO
Larry Otis said:Are you sure those aren't Zeppelin or Cigar cars?
Paul. Marklin did (still) have risque Z and HO pieces. When I was shopping for some Z with my daughter a few years back it kind of shocked me when I saw a couple of the condom cars. Luckily the daughter didn't see it and ask questions. LAO
All we need now to add to this unprovable speculation is a “GRASSY KNOLL” with an illegimitate cousin thought to be hiding there.
Vic,
the first loco mentioned is sound-equipped in original box and thus commands a higher price than a starter set loco without sound from a broken up starter kit. A typical ‘Buy it now’ on these locomotives is around $129.99, with auction listing prices varying on how many bid on the same ite listing, but anywhere from $75 - $120.
Paul,
for some the hobby is simply running trains round and round and round and do not like to get very verbose on the topic, as their enjoyment is simply fulfilled - trains going round and round and round. For others, the hobby expands beyond the simple premise of a circle of track and a train chasing its tail. I like to expand my interest in the hobby and relish ‘research’ on eBay and other sources to stimulate my mind. The LGB market research gives me a lot of joy and an opening into how many people think. I have similarly made a large number of purchases and am well acquainted with the market and actually enjoy the experience as much as simply owning the product. Each to his own.
I find it amazing that when one 'speculates' about a topic, based on well known information, then there is always the person who feels the need to bring up a conspiracy theory. One does not need to believe in a conspiracy if one follows the chain of events. As many a learned colleague on this forum has stated - 'follow the money'. Some simply feel the need to kiss the proverbial to keep in the good books with the upper echelon of the family group forum. I like to form my own opinion, based not on what someone else believes, but on my own research.John Spehar said:John,
All we need now to add to this unprovable speculation is a "GRASSY KNOLL" with an illegimitate cousin thought to be hiding there.
It’s either that :lol: or we just wait while the wheels keep on turning ever so slowly and deliberately. There is no hurry, unless someone says “Stop the world I wanna get off”. It has been known that the Germans take a dim view of certain goings on, but right at the moment they’re awfully busy with the “goings on” at Siemens. So we have another cuppa tea and wait.
Tim,
Don’t sweat it, it has been established that any time you question or criticize a mfg the likelihood of someone having bought “that stuff” is good. Doesn’t matter if it’s Admiral, Beaver, Cuisinart, Dodge, Electrolux, Frionor, GoldenBoy or whatever … having bought that product means that it must be above reproach in any and all matters. If it weren’t the person who bought “that stuff” may not be quite as smart as he/she believes her/himself to be. Seems to me that would be a typical case of lacking self-confidence. OTOH I could be all wrong, happens once in a while.