Large Scale Central

LGB 21670 Track cleaning loco

Problem Solving
#28

Andrew

I talked to a local person who has repaired several of these. If you place 20 + volts on the track and the cleaning motor does not move there is likely a problem with the main board. He has seen that the ball bearing on the cleaning motor axle can freeze causing the motor to stall. On one unit it only froze once in awhile. When it froze a diode on the main board burned out. The main board has a rectifier whose outputs feed the track cleaning motor. Check the voltage there.

The decoder is integrated to the board and while you can often replace the diodes the main board costs about $160 or so to get a replacement.

The decoder ID will likely show it is LGB as they have a manufacture ID and for the most part use that for their products.

To check the lights try increasing the speed one notch. If the lights are off in each position there is likely something wrong with the decoder. I would check the Massoth WWW site for more compete list of CVs as perhaps you changed a function mapping. They might also have a suggestion on who to reset the decoder with your programmer.

If the lights come on at one speed step and go off at another speed step you have a mismatch between the decoder speed step and the command station speed step.

Hope that helps.

Stan

Hope that helps.

Stan

#29

Stan, the CV 7 ID is 123 which is Massoth for the LGB track loco and all non Marklin engines of the past. Of course the 55020 and 55021 will have the same ID of 123 which were used in the decoder ready versions of the track cleaner.

#30

Hi, I am back home early so dived right inti this again. Manufacturer ID is 123, version is 25, ID for decoder type is 5. I did write ti Massoth but no response. Stan I think you might be on to something, although my maximum power is meant ti be 18 volts. I most appreciate you asking for me. The cleaning motor will turn if power is supplied to its motor directly.

Andrew

#31

Hi - The LGB 21670 has a DCC decoder built into the main circuit board…there is no decoder interface like the second of the three versions of the Yellow LGB 20160. The first 20160 was strickly DC/Analog; the third version has the dcc functionality built into the main circuit board like the current Red LGB 21670. If your LGB 21670 main circuit board is fired, you can buy a replacement circuit board #LGB E129813 at OnlyTrains.com for $110 plus shipping. I also have these circuit boards for the LGB 20670/21670 loco repairs I do for folks. These circuit boards are produced by Massoth. Regarding the CV programming issues, your DCC programming tool could be the problem…some non-Massoth/Piko DCC systems do not provide sufficient power to program the Massoth-type decoders. I installed a Massoth XL power decoder and Phoenix sound decoder into someone’s LGB F7AB diesel locomotive last year and had no problem setting the CVs. But when the person received the locos, his NEC DCC system didn’t have enough power to properly program the CVs. He eventually borrowed a friend’s Piko DCC system (made by Massoth) and that solved his programming challenges.

Tom

#32

It’s not necessarily power to program, it’s the programming mode… normally these older decoders need register mode, which is indeed in all NCE systems.

Just something people need to know on older systems, register, paged and direct modes used on the programming track in service mode.

My NCE was great at programming, once I tried other modes and also learned that European decoders often need power interrupted after writing.

The NCE allowed ME to choose which mode is used… whereas even my extremely expensive Zimo does not let me forcibly control the protocol, it tries direct and then if it fails to read, I believe it drops back to register or paged.

Lots to learn when you work on the old stuff… stuff they did not bother to mention in the manuals.

Greg

#33

LGB track cleaner versions:

1st had sockets on the back for track power 2067 3 wire motor block

2nd did not have the sockets on the back 20670 3 wire motor block

3rd had DCC ready sticker, no socket on the rear 4 wire motor block you could add the 55020 and later the 55021 for DCC

4th is yellow 20670.8 with the built in DCC decoder

5th had a decoder built in the control board 21670 and is now a red cleaner.

#34

This is all facinating information. My Sprog 3 18 Volt using JMRI only seems to have direct or page mode. I can change CVs and it seems to stick, but reset does not fully work what ever method I use. It never resets CV 1 to 3.

before I shell out on another board or Zimo decoder I will keep trying to see if I can resolve this.

Having said that, is it possible to get the thermal cut out for the cleaner motor to work with a Zimo decoder ?

Andrew

#35

Dan Pierce said:

LGB track cleaner versions:

1st had sockets on the back for track power 2067 3 wire motor block

2nd did not have the sockets on the back 20670 3 wire motor block

3rd had DCC ready sticker, no socket on the rear 4 wire motor block you could add the 55020 and later the 55021 for DCC

4th had a decoder built in the control board 21670 Red track cleaner is DCC

Dan - You state there were three versions of the “Yellow” LGB 2067/20670 Track Cleaning Loco. So, using your list, then there were actually four versions of these “Yellow” locos before they produced the “Red” LGB 21670 loco with the onboard MTS/DCC decoder installed. This fourth version of the “Yellow” LGB 20670 did have the factory-installed onboard MTS/DCC decoder. A copy of the LGB Owner’s Manual for this LGB 20670 loco is attached. So, it’s important for anyone owning one of the LGB track cleaning locos to accurately identify which version they have in order to properly diagnose the operating issues. As you know, this is particularly important if it’s DCC equipped, and then to also determine whether someone has installed a DCC decoder or whether it’s the factory-installed onboard MTS/DCC decoder. If the owner doesn’t have the owner’s manual and know the history of the loco, then the surest method is to disassemble the loco to determine how it’s configured inside. Unfortunately, LGB didn’t use version numbers with production dates on their locomotives which would also be helpful for resale value.

Tom

#36

Looked in the compendium and found there are 5 track cleaner versions so I updated my previous list to show 5 models.

Difference in 4th and 5th is the color of the loco.

#37

A J said:

This is all facinating information. My Sprog 3 18 Volt using JMRI only seems to have direct or page mode. I can change CVs and it seems to stick, but reset does not fully work what ever method I use. It never resets CV 1 to 3.

before I shell out on another board or Zimo decoder I will keep trying to see if I can resolve this.

Having said that, is it possible to get the thermal cut out for the cleaner motor to work with a Zimo decoder ?

Andrew

Hi Andrew - Try one more time to set the CV1 address you want. I assume you’re using a programming track: So after you enter the address and press ok to enter it, then raise on side of the loco off the rail, so the wheels disengage, to unpower the decoder…wait three seconds and then place the loco back on the rail to re-power the decoder. See if that works to set your CVs. I have to use this approach with the Soundtraxx Tsunami2 decoders with my Massoth DCC system.

Also, if your loco’s board or the installed decoder is defective, I’d recommend you install a new replacement board with the built-in decoder which are made by Massoth for these LGB track clearner cars. You can buy one at OnlyTrains.com for $110 plus shipping. I bought several for my inventory for repairing customer’s locos…did one last month for someone. You just remove the old board and install the new one, there’s a connector cable that plugs into the front cleaning motor. This is a clean baseline repair approach instead of trying to replace an existing decoder, if it has one. The photo shows the track cleaning loco with the new board ready to be installed.

Tom

#38

My sincere thanks to everyone for your kind help and support. Before buying a new decoder I decided to give LGB one more try. I very kind gentleman replied with the following information. Some of it was not in the manual so I’m sharing it here In the hope it will help others. As I suspected some of the non listed CV had been overwritten. The Reset still does not work, but having the extra CV below enabled me to program each directly.

My LGB track cleaning loco is back in business.

LGB 20670 Schienenschleiflok / Track cleaning loco Besondere CV-Werte / special CV values
30.11.2010 - NR

CV49 = 32 Cleaning Motor Speed control

CV50 = 5 Brightnes for Lights

CV51 = 129 Cleaning motor switch button 1 / forward only

CV52 = 128 Light command forward

CV53 = 64 Light command back

CV54 = 38 Digital Aanalogue flashing light configuration

CV56 = 5 Bright ness flashing roof lights

CV57 = 129 switch for flashing lights

CV55 = 55 Reset Standard

CV55 = 66 Reset Specials

Andrew

#39

CV51 makes me wonder if I add reverse control by adding 64 (CV51 = 193) will the loco clean in reverse??

My digital loco has a zimo decoder and will clean in both directions. I do not have the LGB digital board to try this.

#40

CV51 makes me wonder if I add reverse control by adding 64 (CV51 = 193) will the loco clean in reverse??

My digital loco has a zimo decoder and will clean in both directions. I do not have the LGB digital board to try this.

#41

Dan,

i don’t know what would happen if you did change CV 51 as you suggest. I’m just happy to have everything working again so I wont mess with it. There might be more courageous people out there who may give it a go. One thing for sure, this is not like a Zimo decoder.

Andrew

#42

A J said:

My sincere thanks to everyone for your kind help and support. Before buying a new decoder I decided to give LGB one more try. I very kind gentleman replied with the following information. Some of it was not in the manual so I’m sharing it here In the hope it will help others. As I suspected some of the non listed CV had been overwritten. The Reset still does not work, but having the extra CV below enabled me to program each directly.

My LGB track cleaning loco is back in business.

LGB 20670 Schienenschleiflok / Track cleaning loco Besondere CV-Werte / special CV values
30.11.2010 - NR

CV49 = 32 Cleaning Motor Speed control

CV50 = 5 Brightnes for Lights

CV51 = 129 Cleaning motor switch button 1 / forward only

CV52 = 128 Light command forward

CV53 = 64 Light command back

CV54 = 38 Digital Aanalogue flashing light configuration

CV56 = 5 Bright ness flashing roof lights

CV57 = 129 switch for flashing lights

CV55 = 55 Reset Standard

CV55 = 66 Reset Specials
Andrew

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Andrew - Congrats on fixing your LGB Track Cleaning Loco! So, I’m curious, which version of the five do you have…I assume it’s either the last Yellow version made, or the newest Red version made, both have the on-board dcc technology built into the circuit board?

Tom

#43

A thought… When programming the track cleaner be sure the engine is in the normal run mode, not cleaning mode.

Switch in cab is for :

Left 0 all off

Middle 1 Normal engine, no cleaning capaboility

Right 2 Cleaning mode, forward cleaning only/reverse is no cleaning.

#44

Dan,

i was sure I had replied to you last post but could not see my reply.

As everything is now working I don’t have the courage to mess with it :slight_smile: That is how I got into non function state. Strangely I am more comfortable nfident with my Zimo 699, at least there is information online about it.

Andrew

#45

Thomas,

My Track Cleaning Loco is the latest version, Red LGB/Marklin The decoder is built in.

i bought it new about 3 years ago. Interestingly the cleaning motor has always rotated the wheels in the same direction as the movement, not opposite as it is meant too. Easy to change but not necessary, it cleans well.

Andrew

#46

A J said:

Thomas,

My Track Cleaning Loco is the latest version, Red LGB/Marklin The decoder is built in.

i bought it new about 3 years ago. Interestingly the cleaning motor has always rotated the wheels in the same direction as the movement, not opposite as it is meant too. Easy to change but not necessary, it cleans well.

Andrew

I do believe you just have to switch leads to the cleaning motor .

#47

A J said:

Thomas,

My Track Cleaning Loco is the latest version, Red LGB/Marklin The decoder is built in.

i bought it new about 3 years ago. Interestingly the cleaning motor has always rotated the wheels in the same direction as the movement, not opposite as it is meant too. Easy to change but not necessary, it cleans well.

Andrew

Andrew - I have both the Red version you have plus recently bought a used Yellow version with the onboard DCC decoder…the last version of the Yellow one.

As already mentioned, you just switch the wires going to the cleaning motor. It’s easy to access that motor block as stated in your LGB Owner’s Manual. In fact, there’s a reason LGB and LGB/Marklin designed the wheels to turn in the opposite direction…I believe it causes less grinding on your brass rails compared to the forward direction your loco’s cleaning wheels are doing. So suggest you switch those wires.