Large Scale Central

labour costs in China

General Discussion
#21

Grrrrr. :wink:

#22

Just having fun Steve, you have to make a mistake some time!

It did really reinforce your point though! :slight_smile:

Greg

#23

Greg Elmassian said:

Just having fun Steve, you have to make a mistake some time!

It did really reinforce your point though! :-

Greg, I was growling at the stupid tablet, not you. One can make the case that unions drove its manufacture offshore. I still maintain that some, perhaps even most of these jobs can be brought back, to “right to work” states. It makes no sense to me to have essential components for the F-35 made in China.

#24

Steve , your post was the more eloquent for its being put to us four times .

Perhaps a tadpole has got behind the front screen of your I-Pad .

May I suggest a quiet talk to it in the fashion you would have used on board ship so that it may swim off content in the knowledge that whatever else the Chinese make , they cannot hope to compete with the salty epithets you make .

No , don’t thank me !! Anything for a friend .

Mike

#25

Steve Featherkile said:

I don’t think we need to worry about Skynet, anytime soon.

We’re all safe, they figured out just plug Skynet into Youtube and it will just spend all its time watching LOLCAT videos:

http://gizmodo.com/5921296/googles-artificial-brain-loves-to-watch-cat-videos

:wink:

#26

Bob Cope said:

Unions = Overpaid, under worked people with little or no pride in workmanship because they have a union to defend their poor workmanship. Union Made USED TO mean something. Look at General Motors, more cars recalled this year tan they made in the last seven.

I’m off my soapbox now.

So then, Non Union = Underpaid and overworked?

Why should a person take pride in their job when they don’t make a living wage? When they are worked 60 hours a week without overtime pay? When they are treated unfairly? When they are replaced for workers who are paid even less?

But, both sides of the coin can produce lazy workers with no pride. In a perfect world unions wouldn’t be necessary, hell most things wouldn’t be necessary. It’s not a perfect world. Is the system abused? Sure it is. Can you name one that isn’t?

As far as China goes, the labor costs are going to go up. The workers are realizing their value. Companies have been looking for the next cheap labor force for a long time. Then those workers will realize their worth. Then those companies will move…

Terry

#27

Terry,

I spent the largest part of my engineering career working in the overwoked/unerpaid department. The last 8 years I have been lucky enough to find a salaried non-exempt position (I get time and a half overtime). The 30 or so years before was 50-70 getting paid for 40. Partially my fault for not getting a degree, starting a family instead. Even under those conditions, it was my responsibility to do the best job I knew how to do, even to the extent of doing someonelse’s for them to complete tasks on time.

I recently read an article on a single mom in New Jersey who died in her car catching a nap between her three part time jobs to support her children. I know of several people who have given up looking for meaningful work because the job market is so lopsided with low paying jobs while the real jobs are sent overseas. Now we have corporations leaving the US to headquarter elsewhere so their US tax liability is reduced. More of the rich get richer…

Free enterprise only works when the government stays out. There is way to much government control to allow free enterprise to be free enterprise. Big business has politicallybought it’s way to make certain they are never threatened by free enterprise.

This is slippery slope I will not go any further down, as I don’t wish to upset people who don’t share my point of view.

#28

Agreed. Back to trains. :slight_smile:

Terry

#29

I just saw an item on The BBC News .

President Xi Jinping’s campaign to tackle “decadent working practices” has saved $9 Billion over the past year .

Interesting in the light of previous posts in this thread .

Mike

Oh my word , the story has just aired with the additional info that 150,000 “ghost” jobs , where people were paid even if they didn’t turn up for the job , were paid for .

Methinks a few firing squads will be needed soon .

#30

Gee, how do I get a ghost job. I can not show up every day. Heck I can even not show up for overtime.

:wink:

#31

Start by changing your name to Casper?

#32

Pete Thornton said:

Dan Padova said:

. . . . . . .

You want to know why it’s so hard for young people to get jobs today. It’s because they’re all competing against one another instead of joining forces.

Without getting into the us-versus-them politics, can I point out that competing for a job (or for anything else) is very much a feature of capitalism.

I would also suggest that, union or no union, people’s living conditions and job conditions improve as efficiencies and inventions make things less expensive to buy, making everyone richer and moving them up the social scale (and moving the scale at the same time.) “A rising tide raises all boats.”

And finally, Dan, how does competing for jobs make it harder to get a job ? If there are a finite number of jobs, and a larger number of applicants, then of course everyone competes and some don’t get one. Or are you suggesting we should give them all a job, thus making the cost of production much higher?

I should have worded it differently. What I meant to say was that, in today’s world, employers are looking for the person who will accept the least pay. I equate it to Piece Work. It’s not the same employment world I came into forty five years ago.

#33

Steve Featherkile said:

When I was a tadpole, my uncle, a proud union bricklayer, told me that a journeyman bricklayer could lay 1200 bricks in a day, but the union would only allow him to lay 800 bricks a day to ensure employment for all who wanted to lay bricks. I told him that I thought that was crazy. He called me a tadpole.

This happened back in the late 1950s, I’m sure that it doesn’t happen anymore, does it, Dan?

Is “tadpole” a union term?

Back in those days, work was good. Construction unions still held a respectable place in our society. Yes, there was some of that behavior you spoke of. And yes, unions have done some less that stellar things in order to protect and create jobs.

But when you compare some of the unions dirty dealings, with what has been done by large corporations, banks in particular, I would say that if you work for a living and bitch about unions, you are only creating the very thing that the money people want. And that would be keeping the working class divided. Remember, “A house divided cannot stand”.

#34

Dan Padova said:

Steve Featherkile said:

When I was a tadpole, my uncle, a proud union bricklayer, told me that a journeyman bricklayer could lay 1200 bricks in a day, but the union would only allow him to lay 800 bricks a day to ensure employment for all who wanted to lay bricks. I told him that I thought that was crazy. He called me a tadpole.

This happened back in the late 1950s, I’m sure that it doesn’t happen anymore, does it, Dan?

Is “tadpole” a union term?

Back in those days, work was good. Construction unions still held a respectable place in our society. Yes, there was some of that behavior you spoke of. And yes, unions have done some less that stellar things in order to protect and create jobs.

But when you compare some of the unions dirty dealings, with what has been done by large corporations, banks in particular, I would say that if you work for a living and bitch about unions, you are only creating the very thing that the money people want. And that would be keeping the working class divided. Remember, “A house divided cannot stand”.

Then, why are folks in “Right to Work” States like South Carolina thriving?

#35

A materialistic world requires low priced goods in order that consumers can have it all. Thus the move to offshore manufacturing. In this day and age where everyone wants everything means buying cheap to stretch finite funds.

Twelve years ago I decided I could do without a lot of “stuff” and made it a point to buy quality instead of quantity when I do buy.

#36

Dwayne , I would imagine you have benefited greatly by putting quality before quantity .

Smart move .

Mike

#37

Where’s the “like” button?

#38

I found it for you Steve. A disgruntled worker put it in the wrong bin.

#39

Steve Featherkile said:

Where’s the “like” button?

It’s over on Facebook, just like the “Share” button. That kind of cross-fertilization is very handy for some purposes, but less desirable on fora that have a more specific audience and target theme.

Dwayne Weyrich said:
A materialistic world requires low priced goods in order that consumers can have it all. Thus the move to offshore manufacturing. In this day and age where everyone wants everything means buying cheap to stretch finite funds. Twelve years ago I decided I could do without a lot of “stuff” and made it a point to buy quality instead of quantity when I do buy.

Very good point, a lot of people who run their own business will quickly discover, if they didn’t know already, it’s one very good way to save money. Buy the best you can afford and be done buying.

Apart from that one can easily do without a “lot of that stuff”. As always strictly my opinion and your mileage may differ.

#40

David Russell said:

I found it for you Steve. A disgruntled worker put it in the wrong bin.

What else is in that bin? Any kittens?