Hmmm that’s funny two members from Maine named Eric …Shut up Rooster!
Welcome a board!
Thanks, Sean. I look forward to meeting the other Maine Eric. I’m brand new to G scale, and loving it so far.
Scott,
I believe you were provided more than ample information to make an informed decision that there is no Kadee, or any other for that matter, coupler that will mount or function in the USAT molded in coupler pocket. It is totally cosmetic.
As for getting dimension out of Kadee, good luck with that. I spent over an hour on the telephone with them requesting similar information to use building Solid Works solid models of rolling stock. I was clearly told in no uncertain terms that the information was ‘proprietary’. I then spent an evening measuring and modeling an 820 and 830 coupler and box to meed my needs.
As to your comments about some of the folks on this forum, I find your statements to be totally out of line. You requested information that is NOT READILY AVAILABLE. Folks responded with their knowledge and experience. I am sorry it didn’t meet with your approval. Apparently the folks over on MLS didn’t have the answer to suit your desires either. I am also sorry that MLS, your home base, is slowly falling into a death spiral, but don’t take your frustrations out on folks here. Take the information that suits you and ignore the rest, just don’t attack the members here, the result may not be pleasant.
Good luck in your dimensional search, however I recommend you purchase the couplers in question and get out your calipers as I did.
Eric Reuter said:
I was the OP on the related thread on MLS. Just discovered this forum. I have an 831 here, so I can contribute that.
L: 31 mm (the box itself is 14.3 mm)
W: 20 mm
H: 9.6 mm
So the 835 should be about;
L: 14.3mm
W: 20mm
H: 9.6mm not counting the lip
Since its basically the same box as the 831, without the tail.
Congratulations Scot, you got information I could not.
As for deleting the post, there is still good information contained here that although it did not suit your needs, it most certainly will others. I hope that explains the non deletion.
Scot Lawrence said:
…
Good man, this looks a lot better.
Ken Brunt said:
You’ll probably be better off cutting the coupler box that’s on the car flush with the bottom of the car and using the 830. The shank of the coupler won’t be long enough to fit all the way through what’s on the boxcar…JMHO…(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
That may be so and I understand you speak from experience. However I’m wondering how would you mount the HEP ports on that car?
Bob “IA3R#7” Cope said:
Congratulations Scot, you got information I could not.
As for deleting the post, there is still good information contained here that although it did not suit your needs, it most certainly will others. I hope that explains the non deletion.
Yea, I hate it when people delete informative posts on another site, because they are done with them. Then when the question comes up again, we have to have the discussion all over again, instead of just pointing the person to an existing thread.
Fred Mills, BSc, (Sd, ss) said:
O.
Finally; I’ll give the dimensions, as requested, and clear the air. I’m sitting here with a measuring stick in hand, and one of each size of draft gear box in hand.
First, the #1 Scale box, as used with the 820/1906 couplers: 3/4"/19mm wide by 1 3/16"/3cm long, 1/4"/7.5mm thick.
Second, the “G” Scale box, as used with the 830/906 couplers: 1"/25mm wide by 1 9/16"/4cm long, 3/8"/9mm thick.
There you have it…now I hope everyone is happy and able to get on with life , with good fellowship.
Fred Mills
By snotty I guess you mean he gave you the dimensions you asked for???
Pete Lassen said:
Fred Mills, BSc, (Sd, ss) said:
O.
Finally; I’ll give the dimensions, as requested, and clear the air. I’m sitting here with a measuring stick in hand, and one of each size of draft gear box in hand.
First, the #1 Scale box, as used with the 820/1906 couplers: 3/4"/19mm wide by 1 3/16"/3cm long, 1/4"/7.5mm thick.
Second, the “G” Scale box, as used with the 830/906 couplers: 1"/25mm wide by 1 9/16"/4cm long, 3/8"/9mm thick.
There you have it…now I hope everyone is happy and able to get on with life , with good fellowship.
Fred Mills
By snotty I guess you mean he gave you the dimensions you asked for???
I suppose you overlooked the first reply that gave no dimensions, but had derogatory comments like; ‘that you insist on using’ and then ventured into an install post vs. a dimensional one … I could see that as insulting and could cloud my appreciation of that poster… finally only two boxes have been mentioned, while Scott asked for several…
Happy Rails,
John
According to a post over in “Scott Lawrence’s den of distress” he has “Left the building”, dragging his tail and muttering more bad things about LSC, and generally all its members, and me…not mentioning any names, mind you.!!
He made it quite clear that he was “Distressed” with the treatment he received here, and will never return.
Well, that’s too bad. Every member we alienate further divides the hobby. But lets not dissolve into an US vs THEM thread. Lets examine ourselves and figure out our part in why he felt the way he did.
Bob McCown said:
Well, that’s too bad. Every member we alienate further divides the hobby. But lets not dissolve into an US vs THEM thread. Lets examine ourselves and figure out our part in why he felt the way he did.
Well stated !
Rooster makes an appointment for BD counseling
I am confused. He asked for dimensions, and since I don’t have all those boxes, I could only help with one. Others are probably in the same position. Also he asked about using the USA casting/coupler box face that comes on the cars with KaDee couplers. And he was directed to a very helpful thread that basically said that it really cannot be done effectively. And then he went off the rails. What did I miss?
It is a shame that he has that impression of the folks here. Along with some good natured ribbing, I have always found the members here to be helpful when I have questions, and I though that was what we were trying to do, until he went off the rails.
David Maynard said:
… What did I miss?
…
nothing.
there exist persons with different personalities.
I suspect it helps some to have their own failures.
I do know there is a custom train in the works and he may have been researching more than seeking a ‘how to’.
I once got into a brouhaha when a respected fellow told me ‘It can’t be done’, regarding a product I had bought and installed. Had he said ‘It’s difficult to use’ I wouldn’t have had a cause.
I regret the haha-brouing, but the way I was told was demeaning and my back went up.
Ya never know.
John
Some people who post on message boards have thin skin. They’re sensitive. Some even lie in wait for someone to challenge them, then either go on the offensive and pounce or go on the defensive and cry fowl, and eventually take their ball and go home. I’ve seen this time and time again on message boards.
In this case, Scot was very persistent in obtaining measurements for various Kadee coupler draft gear boxes that he figured he would get to fit on his USA Trains Genesee R-16018 reefer. Guys from this board like Fred Mills and Don Watson are experts on this subject - they’ve done quite a few modifications on USA Trains/Charles Ro cars with Kadee couplers. To accommodate Kadee couplers (both #1 and “G”) on USA and LGB freight cars, you have to cut some material off the ends of the cars, fabricate and glue styrene mounting pads (with thin shims if necessary) to the floor and screw down the gear boxes to the pads so that the coupler height will match the height of the Kadee coupler height gauge. You also have to verify that the truck frame/axle/wheels of the car adequately clear the gear box. There’s no way to get around this process if you want the body-mount Kadee couplers to be functionally and cosmetically correct on these particular series of cars.
As my Dad use to tell me: “You can’t tell someone something they don’t want to hear”.
Michael Kirrene said:
As my Dad use to tell me: “You can’t tell someone something they don’t want to hear”.
So true. That’s why in face to face conversations, quite often when folks tell me that what I said is wrong, I just stop talking.
David Maynard said:
Michael Kirrene said:
As my Dad use to tell me: “You can’t tell someone something they don’t want to hear”.
So true. That’s why in face to face conversations, quite often when folks tell me that what I said is wrong, I just stop talking.
Deleted useful information below:
Hey everyone,
I gathered this info together for a project, and thought I would post it for reference, in case anyone ever needs it…
the first set of numbers I measured myself, the rest I got direct from Kadee.
The boxes are the same for both the “G-scale” couplers, and the slightly smaller “#1 scale” couplers…the boxes are the same either way.
I was looking for the outer dimensions of the main body of the box, not counting that little “lip” some of them have on the front,
and not counting the decorative rivets…those can just be filed flat, and aren’t an integral part of the main box height. here is the list from the Kadee site:
https://kadee.com/~kadeecom/htmbord/1gcouplers.htm
Standard Gear Box (830 type)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-csRbSK2/0/O/i-csRbSK2.png)
L: 30mm - 1.18"
W: width of main box, 19mm. Overall width including the side screw hole protrusions: 22mm - 0.86"
H: 8mm - 0.31" (not counting the top “lip” extension)
Truck Mount Gear Box (831 type)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-NS598bc/0/O/i-NS598bc.jpg)
Short Gear Box (835 type)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b33SPs9/0/O/i-b33SPs9.jpg)
831 ane 835 are the same for the main square box:
L: 0.565"
W: 0.800"
H: 0.380"
From kadee:
Quote:
| The tail on the #831 box is .660” long x .474” wide x .252” thick, it’s centered and flush with the top of the box. |
|---|
Extra Short Gear Box (821 type)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-M6tXj3G/0/O/i-M6tXj3G.jpg)
(not counting the “lip” at the front-top of the gearbox)
L: 0.460
W: 0.605"
H: 0.300
Pilot Pocket (791 type)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-vDnGRVm/0/O/i-vDnGRVm.jpg)
For this one, im interested in the dimensions at the front of the gearbox! 
could it perhaps be slid into the back of a car coupler pocket opening?
thats not the “standard” use for the coupler, but it could perhaps be adapted to other uses.
from Kadee:
Quote:
| The rear box for the #791 is the same as the #831. The pilot pocket has a mounting plate 1.400” wide x .483” high x .103” thick, the pocket extends .685” from the mounting plate and tapers from the plate .857” to .767” at the end and is .365” high at the end. |
|---|