Large Scale Central

Kadee Coupler Height Gauges

Tools and Tips
#21

I’m trying to add interest to my layout by having some modicum of operational capability. The remote uncoupling, while involving more fine tuning, is a boon to switching operations.

It always strikes me as funny when people convert to Kadees, and then cut off the uncoupling lever. If I was in the position to want a knuckle coupler and no remote uncoupling, I think I would pick something like Accucraft and actually have the lift pin work. If long trains were essential, I think I would use the Aristo couplers, with the little “anti-lift” “finger” in the knuckle to keep couplers from lifting over each other.

Regards, Greg

#22

Greg, I’m not cutting the trip pins, they are mighty handy for uncoupling even when using a modified Swizzle Stick. As far as operations go, I’ve been along several times on the RhB wayfreight on the Albula line. Even made a DVD called “Albula Wayfreight”. Yep the uncoupling and coupling is strictly by hand. The RhB has one center buffer and a balancing link and hook set-up left and right of that with a LH/RH turnbuckle to get the slack tightened to the correct amount. Would be nice to model, but not for outside operations. Sooooooooo my compromise is a Kadee coupler (the #1 Gauge type) in lieu of the center buffer. Yes Sir, as sacrilegious as it sounds, I chop that center buffer off. In this case it is function over looks. But the Kadee without the center buffer still looks more aceptable than the giant hook and loop bottlecap openers from LGB or whoever. I got introduced to Kadees 30 years ago, didn’t take much debating to start converting all my HO Euro equipment to Kadees. And it’s been Kadees ever since, doesn’t matter what scale (Z to LS).

The Kadees also allow for proper sill to sill distance on the freight cars, the tang has to be modified in some instances (drill a new mounting hole) but nothing serious. But having the prototypical distance “looks right”. :wink: :slight_smile:

#23

I’ve been converting to body mounts because on long trains, the couplers try to ride up on each other, and the body mount resists this better. With truck mounts, the coupler tang acts as a powerful lever to tilt the truck to allow this unwanted motion.

One thing I want to investigate is why the couplers try to do this unter tension. Looking inside the knuckle face, it seems that the surface is not flat, but peaks at the mold lines and angles slightly away. I’ve been wondering about taking a small mill to the inside face and flattening this.

Have you noticed this? My trackwork is getting better, so now instead of running 10 cars, I’m running 20 car freights and the drag is pretty high. (Of course ball bearing wheels might be a solution, but that brings on a whole 'nother set of problems I would have to solve)

Regards, Greg

p.s. thanks for the email, good show, keep it up!

#24

Greg ,
I seem to remember from way back there used to be an instruction with the Kadees saying to touch the face up with a file to improve coupling/uncoupling . I always do anyway and have always done so . I don’t read instructions now of course , I’m too clever .
Mike

#25

Mike, you mean “inside” the face, right, where the two couplers actually touch?

I’ve tried to do this, but it’s darn hard to hold the coupler after installed. Maybe I should prep a few before installation.

I guess the only kind of file that makes sense is a small diameter round file, what do you use?

Regards, Greg

#26
Greg Elmassian said:
I've been converting to body mounts because on long trains, the couplers try to ride up on each other, and the body mount resists this better. With truck mounts, the coupler tang acts as a powerful lever to tilt the truck to allow this unwanted motion.

One thing I want to investigate is why the couplers try to do this unter tension. Looking inside the knuckle face, it seems that the surface is not flat, but peaks at the mold lines and angles slightly away. I’ve been wondering about taking a small mill to the inside face and flattening this.

Have you noticed this? My trackwork is getting better, so now instead of running 10 cars, I’m running 20 car freights and the drag is pretty high. (Of course ball bearing wheels might be a solution, but that brings on a whole 'nother set of problems I would have to solve)

Regards, Greg

p.s. thanks for the email, good show, keep it up!


Greg,

My longest freights won’t exceed 10 or 12 cars, a lot of the cars are four wheelers - not that much weight.

I looked closely at the couplers the parting lines on the #1s are minimal, some goes for the draft. But if I would try anything I’d burnish the outer face of the knuckle for starters to get rid of whatever parting line there is.

Yes, tapered surfaces with a sharp edge can do the “creeping wedging motion” on the mating surface. Get rid of the easy one first i.e. the parting line on the outside of the knuckle.

On that burnishing, I use Dow-Corning’s MolyKote Z-Powder; not cheap, but does a perfect job. As a burnishing surface I use a piece of sheet styrene.

#27

Greg ,
Yes , a small round file on the inside faces befor the coupler is assembled . Which if you go mad and do several means you can’t pick your nose for a week because you lose all feeling in the fingers . Nah , holding them in an appropriate small vise or pliers with cloth on to stop scratching should help . I then finish off with very fine wet “wet or dry” to give a polish , and finally put a trace–a trace only --of nylon powder lubricant on ,and work it in to the surface . Use the same dry lubricant on the pivot and in the draw box , and they should give good service , given the odd blow from an empty puffer as used on camera lenses , then a little puff of drylube . It sounds a lot of work , but it is not . Irritating , yes , fiddly , very . Worth it . Very much so .
Happy diddling ,
Mike

#28

When mounting the body mount couplers; the 820’s for example. Make sure you don’t screw them down too tight.

The new Kadees’ are coming out with metal knuckles…this may help some of your problems.

Don’t cut off the “Tails”. If they seem low and catching on the rails at switches; it could be an indication that the coupler is mounted too low.

#29

Interesting, metal? Did not know that. Are you sure?

I use the 830’s mostly on my USAT freight, same draft gear as the 820. I screw them down tight. The center and 3 other bosses make it so the coupler stays free. What problem did you have making them tight? I make them tight so the coupler does not rock up or down.

I was having uncoupling difficulty, changed over from the portable uncoupler to the standard one, and used my track gauge to hold it in place. I used a router to trim 3 ties down so the uncoupler was at exactly the right height. I just kept increasing the depth, and then trial fitting the gauge with the uncoupler stuck to it until the gauge bottomed the magnet on the ties and the gauge just touched the rails.

The tops of the ties were milled off, so I had 3 open ties. By flipping the assembly upside down, hot melt glue had lots of “purchase” to hold the magnet to the ties. (It does not get hot enough here to soften hot melt glue. I’d use epoxy in other climates)

I also found that my trip pins were too high from the rails.

Setting both of these correctly really helped the uncoupling action. With body mounts, you need more than a short straight section of track, you really need both cars involved to be totally on straight track too.

Regards, Greg

#30

Yes, Greg, Metal knuckles…I was told by Sammy at Kadee of the change, and received a few in the mail…of the 820’s.

When I said not to tighten the mounting screws too tightly; I meant, so tightly that they compress the coupler box and prevent free movement of the coupler.

I also find that using only two screws; the one in the centre and end; are plenty for most applications.

I use mostly 820s' for my needs, and have only used the 821s' in very restrictive situations a very few times.
#31

Fred, what type of metal are they made from? All metal or some plastic parts? Same construction, i.e. how the knuckle spring fits in, etc?

I think metal might be very nice for appearance, but I worry about keeping the knuckle operating freely. It is a small change from a nicely operating coupler and one that is finicky about uncoupling.

Regards, Greg

#32

Just the knuckle, is metal…probably zamac, or some white metal…it is black on the 820 that I got. The rest of the coupler is the same…seems to work fine…

#33

That sounds great, enough plastic to keep free movement, but a cast knuckle would probably look better, and finishing the inside if not even from top to bottom might be easier.

Could be the answer to Kadee knuckles riding up or down under extreme tension.

Any expectations on availability?

Thanks, Greg

#34

According to Sam; everything they are now producing has them…I don’t know if this applies to the larger couplers, but I do know that the 820’s are changed over.

You could call him and ask.

Just call Kadee at their number and ask for Sam.