Large Scale Central

Jim Hediger, Senior Editor, Model Railroader

General Discussion
#21

On the current path at least we are comfortable (or adapted to) the scale choices available. Are all couplers at the same scale the rolling stock they are attached to? not likely, which is fine my me. Some have seen my projects, and I will never call myself a fine scale, or even a decent scale builder.
Just imagine for a moment what would happen when a company had to retool pretty much everything, just to meet a newly published (yet unenforcable) standard. I suspect we would all for the most part turn in to yard sale shoppers for our railroad needs in hopes of finding used items; the new stuff would have to be pretty pricey to cover their costs.

I have a thought: the NMRA can come to my house with a ruler and we will see just how long it takes for them to make the property line without more holes in them than they came with…

#22

"…LGB was in every store window that had a train . . . " THAT is exactly what I saw in the front window of a local train shop Nov’98 couple hr later I was surfing the 'net wondering what G & Garden Railroading was all about. I finally became active in model railroading . . .

Something I’ve noticed (for some reason) recently in say ModelRailroader mag’ O being classified as “large scale”. IMHO large scale starts at 1:32 and grows from there . . . It maybe that recent ‘lionel’ pandemic, where they sell sets advertised as g-gauge — yes the track IS but the rolling stock included is like S or smaller !!!

nite,
doug c

doug c

#23

I’m kind of in the middle…

On the one hand, I think the first thing a modeler (of anything) needs to know, or decide on, is the scale they’re working in, and it should be reasonably consistent. On the other hand, I’m not against fudging a little and using a 1:22.5 scale piece of rolling stock on my 1:24 scale layout. And on the third hand, if I buy a piece of rolling stock that is supposed to be a replica of a specific prototype, I want to know what scale it is and I want it to be fairly accurate to that scale.

On the one hand, I don’t have a problem with using one kind of track to represent different gauges in different scales. The smaller scales do this all the time, such as using HO track for On30. On the other hand, I wish there were at least SOME other gauges of track available in “large scale”, with equipment of a similar scale, so that you could run two different gauges in the same scale, such as standard gauge & narrow gauge.

On the one hand, I like detail, accuracy and proper scale. On the other hand, I understand that sometimes we must make compromises, and each of us must decide for ourselves how much detail and accuracy is enough. And I would never bust anyone’s chops over the lack of detail or accuracy in their models. (To me, a “rivet counter” isn’t someone who prefers accuracy and a high level of detail in his own models; it’s the guy who denigrates the models of others for perceived inaccuracies.)

#24

Boy Ray, you’re all hands! :smiley:

I think you sum it up well. I too would like to see different gauges of track so you could run narrow and standard gauge in the same scale. I know it likely won’t happen but commercially available 1:20.3 standard gauge would make my day!

#25

Just a little aside here folks, while I send a little note to Ross over on Gscalecentral, a mainly British website that some of the members here occasionally contribute to.

Ross - There is plenty of room in the great world of trains for all kinds of people with all kinds of skills, opinions, points of view and mind-sets. Some of us here on THIS site model in multiple scales on the single gauge of 45mm - we may like a LOT of the different types and styles of models available without settling on just ONE - I also model in H0, too, as well as near one-third full-size.

There is plenty of room on THIS site for as many opinions as there are members, and I’m very glad of it, too. We all tend to get on, as well, although occasionally there might be a difference in ‘style’ that does not meet with wholesale agreement, but that is precisely what a forum like this is about, well, that’s what I think. If I’m wong, then no doubt there will be somebody along pretty soon to put me right - in HIS opinion.

Like you have, on your site over in the UK, we too have the scale model operations fans, who have strong opinions on a wide range of issues that might seem, to some, to be pretty anal, but there is room for them, as well as the guys who like to see giraffes driving railcars, while bubbles come out of the caboose and the little helicopter takes off, piloted by a tiny ALF.

What we are NOT altogether happy with is the thought of getting criticised by people who see us as a bunch of wilderness-bred hicks, futzing around like dwarfs in a cornfield, lost and bewildered in a huge world we didn’t make. Sure, that description might just fit me, running five, could be six different scales on the one gauge track, but hey, I have fun doing it, and I try my hardest not to step on too many toes/paws/claws/tentacles while doing it. I run Canadian, German and US Gauge 1, 1/29th ditto, 1/22.5 Euro, 1/20.3 US narrow gauge, 16mm Welsh and African, and whatever else fits on my track without falling off [much]. With or without the help and assistance of any organisation, too, although like many here, I am in one or other of them.

So Ross, if you want to join us, then you would be more than welcome to swell our ranks, and share with us the knowledge of how you expound YOUR love of our great hobby.

Read what Mr Mr Paul RhB has written on your forum - he has it just right.

tac

#26

There is an interesting discussion on TrainBoard “Why would an N scale modeler subscribe to Model Railroader Magazine?” The gist of it? Not enough N in MR! :slight_smile:

There are plenty of model railway/railroad publications to get one’s fill, there are even more fora to hang out on from Z to large LiveSteam.
Do I feel ignored if MR omits the scale(s) I model? Why should I? If they omit it at least they won’t print a lot of rubbish on a topic about which they have hardly a clue.
Where MR really falls down by their omissions is in the product reviews, but there again: if they omit they can’t have any misinformation about products. Luckily there’s the internet and specific fora to find what makes the hobby easier to work on and enjoy!

As far as the different scales go; precisely the point why I made our forum theme specific: from Zm to IIm about the RhB and a few other Swiss railways.

#27

Since Klambake owns both Model Railroader and Garden Railways, the editor could just go down the hall and have ANY article “fact checked”.

I think there are a couple reasons you won’t see LS in MRR… 1. They want to peddle GR to folks like us, period. 2. Many small scale subscribers would pitch a fit because they’re not interested, and it’s ‘their’ magazine.

Klambake is in it to sell magazines, that’s all. ‘Promoting the hobby’ is just a means towards that end for them. Their bread and butter ain’t us, so don’t expect much effort from them aimed at LS. If WE want the hobby promoted, we’ve pretty much got to do it ourselves. Whether it’s open houses, holiday displays, or setting up at the county fair.

#28

What I dont understand is G scale has a scale range from 1:13 to 1:32 all running on the same track. Then you have HO with one scale. If I wanted to model a narrow guage logging line i would have to go with On30. On30 is basicaly running O scale on Ho track. How is that any different then what we do in g scale? or Ho scale trains running on N scale track. Too me its the same thing as what we do in G. Am I not correct or am I missing something?
Why would model RR magazine have garden trains when we have Garden Railroad magazine? We dont see Ho or any other scale in Garden Railroad. Thats fine with me because I could care less about the smaller scales and Im sure the model RR guys feel the same about us as well. I think what we have is a great thing. What club can you have guys that model in all those scale and still have a blast running and talking about trains. Just think if we had even 2 different track sizes one for narrow the other for standard. I would never be able to run my stuff on 90% of our club members layouts and most of them could never run on my layout.

#29
Mark V said:
Boy Ray, you're all hands! :D

I think you sum it up well. I too would like to see different gauges of track so you could run narrow and standard gauge in the same scale. I know it likely won’t happen but commercially available 1:20.3 standard gauge would make my day!


Hey Mark
There is 20.3 duel and standard gauge tie strips available at Iron Creek Shops.
I have some of their standard gauge tie strips that I plan on using next spring. I
still need to get some duel gauge tie strips before I can start though.

Rodney

#30
Shawn said:
What I dont understand is G scale has a scale range from 1:13 to 1:32 all running on the same track. Then you have HO with one scale. If I wanted to model a narrow guage logging line i would have to go with On30. On30 is basicaly running O scale on Ho track. How is that any different then what we do in g scale? or Ho scale trains running on N scale track. Too me its the same thing as what we do in G. Am I not correct or am I missing something? ....................
Shawn you missed the main part.

On30 is 1:48 scale and runs on 16.5mm track which is to represent 30" track i.e. they don’t say it represents 36" gauge. The true track gauge would have to be 15.87mm i.e. 16.5mm is 3.9% too wide.
Compare that to the 10% error for the 1:29 stuff and the 18% error for the 1:24 stuff.

In HO you can model narrow gauge on 12mm track (represents Meter gauge), on 10.5mm track to represent 36" gauge, on 9mm to represent 30" or 750mm gauge. The scale (1:87) stays the same, the track gauge changes and you can get suitable track for all those different gauges.

#31

Yup, and don’t forget the rather strange scale forced on the Brits by trying to model their tiny prototypes with electric motors just before WW2. They kept the rail gauge of 16.5mm, but ever-so-slightly increased the scale of the models that ran on it to 4mm to the foot, or 1/76th scale, and called it 00 scale. The range of stuff in this ‘scale’ is truly mind-blowing, with literally thousands of locomotives and tens of thousands of items of rolling stock available - and EVERYTHING to go with them, from seagulls to buildings of every description.

tac

#32
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
Shawn said:
What I dont understand is G scale has a scale range from 1:13 to 1:32 all running on the same track. Then you have HO with one scale. If I wanted to model a narrow guage logging line i would have to go with On30. On30 is basicaly running O scale on Ho track. How is that any different then what we do in g scale? or Ho scale trains running on N scale track. Too me its the same thing as what we do in G. Am I not correct or am I missing something? ....................
Shawn you missed the main part.

On30 is 1:48 scale and runs on 16.5mm track which is to represent 30" track i.e. they don’t say it represents 36" gauge. The true track gauge would have to be 15.87mm i.e. 16.5mm is 3.9% too wide.
Compare that to the 10% error for the 1:29 stuff and the 18% error for the 1:24 stuff.

In HO you can model narrow gauge on 12mm track (represents Meter gauge), on 10.5mm track to represent 36" gauge, on 9mm to represent 30" or 750mm gauge. The scale (1:87) stays the same, the track gauge changes and you can get suitable track for all those different gauges.


To me that is even more confusing. I thought On30 which is 1:48 scale runs on HO track or is that not true guage?

#33

Shawn, don’t confuse On30 with On3

#34

On30 runs on On30 track and the gauge coincides with HO track gauge. The tie patterns are completely different. Check out the PECO turnouts, first the On30

http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3309,3316&CAT_ID=3320&P_ID=17217

and then the equivalent in HO

http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3309,3322&CAT_ID=3327&P_ID=17462

the difference is quite obvious even though the track gauge is the same.

#35
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
On30 runs on On30 track and the gauge coincides with HO track gauge. The tie patterns are completely different. Check out the PECO turnouts, first the On30

http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3309,3316&CAT_ID=3320&P_ID=17217

and then the equivalent in HO

http://www.peco-uk.com/product.asp?strParents=3309,3322&CAT_ID=3327&P_ID=17462

the difference is quite obvious even though the track gauge is the same.


Thats my point I can still run an HO (standard Gauge) train on the peco track since the guage is the same and an On30 (narrow guage) train on HO track. How is that any different then what we do in G scale. G has standard ties and narrow guage ties where the spaceing is different as well, we just dont have a special name for it. Maybe Im missing something still.

#36

What you’re missing is: most people in LS run on Code332 track and the tie pattern and geometry, other than the NA or Euro version, is pretty well the same. Can’t get the NA turnouts, no problem get whatever is available. Now that is more or less a uniquely “G” attitude and it’s only the start i.e. running 1:20.3 on Code332 “whatever” track? Why bother with detailed scale models in 1:20.3 if the track looks like it dropped out of Santa’s bag?

And since this is the rule as often as not, the people who model in the smaller scales or even model in LS to a specific scale are a bit puzzled. Add to that the repeated scale/gauge discussion - even in GR :open_mouth: :open_mouth: - and the impression of “playing with toys” gets one extra push. Then there is the ubiquitous statement “I run whatever I like”, and possibly all at the same time, which adds a bit more to the puzzlement.

Sooooo if Wendell asks what gives with the mention of LS in MR, the answer could be “The general impression of LS in the media”. :wink: :slight_smile:

#37

I thought the talk was about scale and guage of track So its more about track code more then anything or a combo of the three? I think I understand now but i guess I have to be a rivet counter to really understand it. :slight_smile: Ill just stick with my pretend railroad its a lot easier LOL

#38

I’m thinking 332 was sort of a compromise made for durability.

The standard HO and N stuff ain’t anywhere near a real “scale” profile either. It’s just itty bitty so you don’t notice it as much

#39

The topic is about the lack of coverage in a mention of the different scales and their relative popularity in MR, which stands for Model Railroader.
IMHO the stuff that runs on 45mm track gauge has a general credibility problem! That won’t change until there are as many people modeling specific, consistent scale that gets the same exposure as other specific, consistent scale does.
Case in point is if those people on here who model in that fashion would submit their photographic efforts to MR’s Trackside feature. That at least would be a start!

@ Mik

Have you seen what some N-scalers do with Code40 rail? Code55 from the different mfgs is equivalent to 8.8" high, yes that is higher than the 7 5/16" of 140lbs rail. BTW with the Code332 it isn’t just the height, it is also the cross section of the profile.
In HO Code83 scales to 140lbs rail, Code70 scales to approx. 105lbs, Code55 to approx. 70lbs rail.

#40

any railroad modeling has a credibility problem… It’s not 1:1 scale… :slight_smile: