Only thing I have seen is on the USAT GScale group and it was artwork, not a picture. So waiting to see if the “chrome” model is actually stainless, or shiny paint.
The pricelist says chrome, and since they did red and silver, and separately red and chrome, seems chrome, but we will need to see a real picture.
Also, not stainless, but actual chrome plating, like bumpers of model cars.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
I have not seen any pictures of the actual or prototype, are there any to be had?
Greg,
There is a drawing on the USAT website under F7’s, its your favorite color too.
Michael
Michael Glavin said:
Greg Elmassian said:
I have not seen any pictures of the actual or prototype, are there any to be had?
Greg,
There is a drawing on the USAT website under F7’s, its your favorite color too.
Michael
Yep …but not on the railroad pic he posted
Greg Elmassian said:
The pricelist says chrome, and since they did red and silver, and separately red and chrome, seems chrome, but we will need to see a real picture.
Also, not stainless, but actual chrome plating, like bumpers of model cars.
Greg
Nice RR but it doesn’t look like yours or is it ?
Michael Glavin said:
Greg Elmassian said:
I have not seen any pictures of the actual or prototype, are there any to be had?
Greg,
There is a drawing on the USAT website under F7’s, its your favorite color too.
Michael
Yes, but I meant literally, a picture, not artwork, as was mentioned before, even though it will probably be chrome, the proof will be in an actual picture of the product.
That picture I posted as an example was not identified where I found it, but pretty sure it is Michael Hayworth’s up in LA.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
A little surprised to see posts like yours David, the road names are listed, and not in production yet, so it will be many moons before more road names are added if ever. Kinda don’t see the point.
http://www.usatrains.com/usatrainslocof7.html
One surprising thing, the chrome Santa Fe units are same price as painted models. The Aristo chrome E8’s and the USAT chrome F3’s all had a higher price for the more expensive plating process.
Well, if the price holds steady, I might just get some more, although I do have a 7 unit F3 consist already… oh the pain, the pain (my pocketbook groaning)
Greg
Greg, it was kinda like a joke, since Penn Central is offensive to so many people. There was one guy at a train show on the verge of punching me, because I was running a pair of HO PC F7s. He was really torqued off.
David Maynard said:
Greg Elmassian said:
A little surprised to see posts like yours David, the road names are listed, and not in production yet, so it will be many moons before more road names are added if ever. Kinda don’t see the point.
http://www.usatrains.com/usatrainslocof7.html
One surprising thing, the chrome Santa Fe units are same price as painted models. The Aristo chrome E8’s and the USAT chrome F3’s all had a higher price for the more expensive plating process.
Well, if the price holds steady, I might just get some more, although I do have a 7 unit F3 consist already… oh the pain, the pain (my pocketbook groaning)
Greg
Greg, it was kinda like a joke, since Penn Central is offensive to so many people.
Not to me !!
That’s weird, don’t want to derail the thread, but wonder why someone could get offended by a road name. Anyway, hoping for some nice new stuff from USAT and interested how they will change the 3 axle motorblock.
I remember talking to someone from USA back in 2012 at The BIg Train Show about the F3’s and updating them. This has been in the works for a long time. He did mention at the time that they wanted to make the castings like the fans separate so they could make different versions. I have updated my F3’s with horizontal stainless grilles to represent later F3 runs. They sure look sharp as compared to the chicken wire version. I hope this doesn’t drag on like the USA heavyweights. Good sign though that USA maybe now consider the market good enough to introduce new product.
Greg,
I should find out when I get the SD40-2 motor blocks I had ordered from Mike at USAT Parts who said he now has them. Those motor blocks were not available for a long time, and as I understood when talking to Charlie Ro at the Portland, Ore NGRC are predicated on the new production run of the SD40-2.
-Ted
Dual post.
Michael Kirrene said:
Michael Glavin said:
If the USAT illustration currently on their site accurately represents there NEW F7 offering, I’d suggest it’s depicting an EARLY “Phase 1”, iteration. That said the new intake grilles are a quagmire herein as I can’t definitively ascertain if they are the early horizontal or later vertical configured openings. Providing the grilles are horizontal the new model represents an early Phase 1 F7. If the grilles have vertical openings, LATE Phase 1 is being modeled, if this is the case the USAT F7 late Phase 1 offering is sans several notable updates, i.e., rounded corner cab doors/frames, two weather drip strips over the windows and doors vs one, wing window changes and the delete of kick plates under the steps. In either case the trucks are ill equipped and or modeled with inaccurate braking features.
Perhaps the Daylight schemed F3 and the new F7’s are aimed at pulling passenger car consists, as I noted the F3 is identified/numbered as an E9 in the #6000 series which was painted in Daylight colors and used to pull passenger trains.
I’d suggest the NEW USAT F7 utilizes the original F3 shell, adding a 36” Dynamic Brake fan and replacing the wire intake covers with either horizontal or vertical intake grilles/frames.
Late Phase 1 vertical grilles fitted to USAT F3B unit below.
Michael
Michael, you are the knowledeable one here with attention to detail. According to Mike at USA Trains, the grilles will be different on the F7, and I’m thinking there will be upgrades to the lighting and/or smoke. Doing a little research on the actual locomotives, I see that there are no easily identifiable differences between the late F3 production and early F7 production; the major difference between the two were internal electrical system changes. Evidently no F7 had the “chicken wire” grilles that most F3’s had. Aslo, the F7 was a little narrower in width.
Maybe the obvious feature is the dynamic brake fan/grid opening. The F3 had two vertical screened panels on the roof behind the cab for the dynamic brake cooling. The F7s had a 36 inch fan housing the same as the ones in the back for the radiator.
I’m not holding my breath that USAT “will get it right” with details on this one. I love their trains and I have quite a few of them. Among many examples is their SP Bay Window caboose not being a good replica of the original - ballpark close but not a replica by any means. Their GP9’s should have an ‘extended’ enclosure for the Mars light in the front, and though a minor issue - their woodside reefers aren’t suppose to have a third step in the middle of the car. Nit pik I know, but I think their “as real as it gets” moniker should maybe be changed to “close but no cigar”. Rivet counting can be a real obsession sometimes. I think the new F7 will be nice, but based on history, I’m not going to expect every detail to be on the money. Bloody nose, please, but I think the Black Widow paint scheme will be nice too.
Michael, I have family in Rio Linda - sure would be nice to stop by and meet you in Elverta the next time I’m up there. Would love to see your SP projects.
Michael Kirrene said:
Michael Kirrene said:
Michael Glavin said:
If the USAT illustration currently on their site accurately represents there NEW F7 offering, I’d suggest it’s depicting an EARLY “Phase 1”, iteration. That said the new intake grilles are a quagmire herein as I can’t definitively ascertain if they are the early horizontal or later vertical configured openings. Providing the grilles are horizontal the new model represents an early Phase 1 F7. If the grilles have vertical openings, LATE Phase 1 is being modeled, if this is the case the USAT F7 late Phase 1 offering is sans several notable updates, i.e., rounded corner cab doors/frames, two weather drip strips over the windows and doors vs one, wing window changes and the delete of kick plates under the steps. In either case the trucks are ill equipped and or modeled with inaccurate braking features.
Perhaps the Daylight schemed F3 and the new F7’s are aimed at pulling passenger car consists, as I noted the F3 is identified/numbered as an E9 in the #6000 series which was painted in Daylight colors and used to pull passenger trains.
I’d suggest the NEW USAT F7 utilizes the original F3 shell, adding a 36” Dynamic Brake fan and replacing the wire intake covers with either horizontal or vertical intake grilles/frames.
Late Phase 1 vertical grilles fitted to USAT F3B unit below.
Michael
Michael, you are the knowledeable one here with attention to detail. According to Mike at USA Trains, the grilles will be different on the F7, and I’m thinking there will be upgrades to the lighting and/or smoke. Doing a little research on the actual locomotives, I see that there are no easily identifiable differences between the late F3 production and early F7 production; the major difference between the two were internal electrical system changes. Evidently no F7 had the “chicken wire” grilles that most F3’s had. Aslo, the F7 was a little narrower in width.
Maybe the obvious feature is the dynamic brake fan/grid opening. The F3 had two vertical screened panels on the roof behind the cab for the dynamic brake cooling. The F7s had a 36 inch fan housing the same as the ones in the back for the radiator.
I’m not holding my breath that USAT “will get it right” with details on this one. I love their trains and I have quite a few of them. Among many examples is their SP Bay Window caboose not being a good replica of the original - ballpark close but not a replica by any means. Their GP9’s should have an ‘extended’ enclosure for the Mars light in the front, and though a minor issue - their woodside reefers aren’t suppose to have a third step in the middle of the car. Nit pik I know, but I think their “as real as it gets” moniker should maybe be changed to “close but no cigar”. Rivet counting can be a real obsession sometimes. I think the new F7 will be nice, but based on history, I’m not going to expect every detail to be on the money. Bloody nose, please, but I think the Black Widow paint scheme will be nice too.
Michael, I have family in Rio Linda - sure would be nice to stop by and meet you in Elverta the next time I’m up there. Would love to see your SP projects.
Michael
As I alluded to previously, later F3’s through early Phase 1 F7’s were essentially the same car body. We’ll have to wait and see what style the grilles f7’s are fitted with (horizontal or vertical). Intake grilles together with a dynamic brake fan tell the tale. Correct, F7’s were never fitted with chicken wire, while many F3’s were updated with metal grilles. Wasn’t aware of a chassis width dimension change, must have missed that in my research. There were internal changes as you note, I was pondering exterior comparison to USAT’s F7 artwork.
Yes, the deletion of the rectangular grilles and replacement with another 36” fan is a good spotting tool. The 36” DB fan was short lived on the F7 and later was replaced with 48” fan to the end of production.
Yeah, the 10’ rule is alive and well throughout our industry. It’s all good, close is better than no cigar right? The Aristo C series metal cabooses aren’t right either. Paul Burch modeled several for SP with his usual attention to detail. We ran this topic off track somewhat. PM me, we can gab more and discuss a visit; make time for a visit to my buddy Noels garden layout while you’re in Rio Linda too.
Michael
Yeah, Michael (nice name by the way) the last thing I want to do is derail the thread. One other very small item that I forgot about, though, and maybe another picky but notable one. The USAT SP steel box ‘Hydra Cushion’ car. Don’t think I’ve ever seen a 40" box car with the ‘extra’ logo on it like this one. The additional extra “track into the sunset” logo makes the car more attractive I guess, but it’s not prototypical of the freight car to the best of my knowledge. It does look good and adds a little color, and at least they got the overall color right. but again, I haven’t seen one with a silver door on it either.
http://www.usatrains.com/r19101.html
Heck, Athearn got it right for their HO stuff as far back as the 60’s; why couldn’t USAT do the same for their G scale products?
As to the accuracy of the SP Hydra-Cushion car cited, that car looks like a typical USA Trains “American Series” car with brake wheel at the top, has Bettendorf type hot box trucks, and yet has a modern plug door - Incongruent attributes, which is typical of those cars that represent late 1890s - early 1900 era!
As to the F3 and F7 widths said to be different, perhaps it’s where the measurements were taken.
See below illustration. Note the distance across handrails is the only difference.
-Ted
Ted, I wasn’t questioning the trucks, brake wheel, or what kind of door the car has. I only question the extra SP logo and the color of the door. Just the cosmetic additions. That’s it. If you can point me in the direction of a real one like that, I’d like to see it. It’s not a deal-breaker by any means - I picked up a couple of the cars during their recent sale. There’s three different road number for these particular cars to choose from. I like 'em.
P.S. And yes, I know what “Incongruent attribute” means. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)
The USAT SP 40’ Hydra-Cushion cars are yet another FANTASY… SP Hydra-Cushion equipped boxcars began production 1956. SSW/Cotton Belt had (25) 40’ and (712) 50’ cars, while SP produced 50’ cars; nearly three thousand were built.
Michael
A couple comment of the EMD “Bulldog” nose…
EMD was all about standardization. it’s what gave them the competitive edge over the other builders. the D7 traction motor was improved to the D77 before the advent of AC traction and HTR trucks and a D77 will replace a D7, with no modifications, in the oldest of switchers.
Every EMC/EMD cab unit used a slightly different nose design which gave the different railroads and names trains a unique look which was all fin and dandy until you start hitting things, at which point it becomes a PITA.
The Bulldog first appeared on the F3 and for whatever reason it was decided as the new standard nose, probably due to construction volumes. the F5/E5 generation was more of a transitional design with the F5 maintaining the Bulldog and the E5 using the last raked nose angle. Starting with the E7 both models used the same nose and EMD stocked replacement service panels to complete nose cab assemblies for wreck repairs. Because of the structural nature of the cab and bodies on a true carbody like the F&E’s they have to maintain the same body width as the back of the cab.
As a footnote, the Great Northern lost an entire mail train over the side due to excess speed including a Y class motor. the frame and running gear of the motor was salvaged but the superstructure was destroyed. The GN either purchased, or used from stock, two replacement Bulldog cabs and rebuilt the locomotive as a streamlined motor and it ran until they pulled the plug. All the Y motors were bought by the PRR and continued to serve until they were obsolete. the Streamlined 5011 made the journey but was a parts source, including the cabs, which I have read were used to repair at least one wreck damaged diesel
Thank you Paul,
It seems the FT freight locomotive of 1939 which proceeded the F2/F3,etc. would be considered as having the first “Bull Dog” nose - albeit with its pilot slightly different and petit side mounted number boards.
:max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/FT-56a633df5f9b58b7d0e063d1.jpg)
-Ted