Large Scale Central

Interesting comments from MTH/Mike Wolf on G scale, LGB, Aristo

General Discussion
#21

Steve I had that at a store that I forgot to mention in my first post (rant). I ordered USA wheels when they were $2.50 for 2 axles. Yes, this was along time ago. She told me that she would get them for me at that price. I purchased the ones she did have and ordered several more sets. When they came in, she called me to tell me they were in, but “neglected” to tell me that they were now nearly $5 for 2 axles. I had ordered them, so I paid for them without complaint. I also never went back. That store moved to a smaller storefront and now that smaller storefront is empty.

If the price had indeed gone up, she could have told me that on the phone, so I was prepared. Or she could have sold them to me at the agreed price, loosing some money, but keeping a customer.

#22

Thanks John, you got the point, Mike says that what happened to LGB was that while LGB used to have the best starter sets, that O gauge is better under the christmas tree and that’s why LGB’s market went down. I was hoping that people would listen to the video and Mike’s interpretation of the reasons for the demise of LGB and Aristo.

I cannot agree with his reasoning, and I doubt many LGB or Aristo people will either.

Greg

John Bouck said:

[Youtube]http://youtu.be/uytEWnXhOsk?t=17m46s[/Youtube]

Go in to 18:00

#23

Hmmm… I agree that LGB might have forced everybody to get better. Competition will do that. II dontvknow for sure what drove LGB and Aristo into bankruptcy, but I don’t think it was O gauge. Management decisions, perhaps? Crest is part of Polk Hobbies, or was, not some foreign company. Mike is not the guru that he thinks he is.

#24

Steve Featherkile said:

Hmmm… I agree that LGB might have forced everybody to get better. Competition will do that. II dontvknow for sure what drove LGB and Aristo into bankruptcy, but I don’t think it was O gauge. Management decisions, perhaps? Crest is part of Polk Hobbies, or was, not some foreign company. Mike is not the guru that he thinks he is.

LGB: (IMHO) terrible business decisions (How many Coca-Coke locos?) coupled with an apathy towards market reality.

Aristo: (IMHO) running a very lean business model that was just a little too lean when the world econ tanked.

#25

I think starter sets are both important and lacking. I’m also too ADD to watch a 28 minute video.

At train shows, we often meet people who would like to try it out. Maybe get something inexpensive and put it in the flower bed. Where do we send them? EBay? And the quality? While my old Bachmann is my old-reliable loco, the last time I had my hands on new big haulers, the pickups were only working on one of 4 axles so they ran like… well you know how it ran. Would I want to put one of these in the hands of somebody wanting to try it out?

Can’t put the “blame” on the local hobby shop. Consider his HO collection: There’s a shelf with a few hundred freight cars stacked up. If somebody goes in and asks, “Do you have a somethingorother in Frisco?” He probably does. In G gauge? There probably haven’t been any of those manufactured in the last 9 years, and there probably weren’t any with that road name then. If there were, how could he possibly afford to stock a few hundred G gauge freight cars?

But then, individual freight cars aren’t starter sets, so I digress.

Loosing 2 big manufacturers in recent years hasn’t helped matters any.

In this gauge, you still have to be a do-it-yourselfer. Maybe that’s why we like it? That does make entry harder.

#26

For continuity, I’m responding to Vic, not Tom…

Vic wrote: [quote=Vic]LGB: (IMHO) terrible business decisions (How many Coca-Coke locos?) coupled with an apathy towards market reality.

Aristo: (IMHO) running a very lean business model that was just a little too lean when the world econ tanked.[/quote]

Wellllll, I didn’t want to say that. I’ve already been yelled at (in bold type and all caps no less!) by a noob once this week. That’s enough. (http://www.freerails.com/images/emoticons/gerg.gif)

#27

Steve Featherkile said:

Wellllll, I didn’t want to say that. I’ve already been yelled at (in bold type and all caps no less!) by a noob once this week. That’s enough. (http://www.freerails.com/images/emoticons/gerg.gif)

Sheesh, Steve. Are you turning sensitive on us?

#28

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:

Steve Featherkile said:

Wellllll, I didn’t want to say that. I’ve already been yelled at (in bold type and all caps no less!) by a noob once this week. That’s enough. (http://www.freerails.com/images/emoticons/gerg.gif)

Sheesh, Steve. Are you turning sensitive on us?

Who, me? Nah… The noob is attacking me on another thread, Its gonna be an interesting day. Ya know what’s really fun, is to not answer the attacks, and just let the guy hang out there, exposed as the idiot he really is.

#29

Greg,

Mike’s comments about the control systems in my mind seems to be Mike’s justification of MTH inclusion of the DCS in their Gauge 1 product…

If starter sets are such an important role in promoting the hobby, how come MTH didn’t offer a gauge 1 starter set, and/or track???

I might define 1:32 as a niche market within the G gauge community. Maybe if MTH had gone with 1:29 they might have have more of the ‘niche’ market. And not include their mandatory control system in the locomotives.

BTW the clip is from 18:00 to 23:00 a total of 5 minutes… Worth listening for Mike’s comments.

#30

It was suggested that I commence with starter sets when building my railroad. I am glad that I did not.

I would have soon sold the track as there was no place for the very severe curves - more suited to quarry or mining yards usually forming the track content of starter sets. The few pieces of Aristo 20ft. (25ft.) stock I did have was soon sold, formed part of kitbashes or became lineside features.

Maybe if garden railroading is just a ‘dip your toe in the water to see’ project then maybe a starter set is ideal but anyone with serious intentions in garden railroading should steer clear of them I believe.

#31

Craig, you are spot on with your comments.

The folks at the LHS near the Woodinville Sub (you know which one, I just don’t want to get them in trouble with MTH) will sell DCS, but not recommend it. They told me to wait for Lionel’s Legacy. Of course that has nothing to do with Large scale…

Mike has a lot of chutzpa to whine about starter sets, when he doesn’t have any himself…

He would have done a lot better if he had chosen 1:29, and not insisted on his proprietary control system.

#32

Alan Lott said:

It was suggested that I commence with starter sets when building my railroad. I am glad that I did not.

I would have soon sold the track as there was no place for the very severe curves - more suited to quarry or mining yards usually forming the track content of starter sets. The few pieces of Aristo 20ft. (25ft.) stock I did have was soon sold, formed part of kitbashes or became lineside features.

Maybe if garden railroading is just a ‘dip your toe in the water to see’ project then maybe a starter set is ideal but anyone with serious intentions in garden railroading should steer clear of them I believe.

True, Alan, but you already knew what you wanted to do, being an experienced model railroader. The starter set is for the rest of us who didn’t have a clue. My starter set has long since been repurposed, but it served its purpose… It got me started.

#33

Thanks for the compliment Steve but it is not true I was a modeler but far from experienced. lol

However, I did have two guys who were most helpful. They invited me to visit their backyard railway a few times. I didn’t learn what to do from them: actually I learned what not to do. Their construction of track base was a disaster and had to be redone and the rolling stock (British ng) looked like it came from a toy shop for under ten year olds.

#34

I have to admit, the starter set is what got the gears turning for me. It alowed me to set a circle up in the living room, run a train and make me relise I wanted to do more. If I had to buy everything seperate i would have been lost.

Im also a firm believer that our younger generation (this includes me) is more involved with gadgets and runnig the kids from one event to the next. There is no down time for kids to get involved in hobbies like trains etc… If you dont believe me just pay attention more. I see it first hand. Lucky for me I escaped this mentality and there are those exeptions. Yes you see kids at trains shows but it has to be enforced after the show. Instead its off to the next activity.

#35

Hi Guys:

From the video:

Mike Wolf mentioned that the new Marklin LGB will produce models rather than the previous high quality toys. I doubt that the old LGB molds will not be used for further production of out of scale and out of proportion cars.

Mike Wolf made no mention that the Aristo and USA Trains product lines are scaled at 1:29 scale while the MTH product line is scaled at 1:32 scale thereby leaving MTH with an even smaller niche in the small niche largescale market.

The MTH Hudson 1:32 scale model was a great product ( super detail and great puffing smoke with sound ) which unfortunately was not accepted by the 1:29 scale market place hobbyists.

From Mike Wolf’s comment as to how small a niche market large scale is, I cannot see future new molds being created in 1:32 scale by MTH.

Norman

#36

Steve Featherkile said:

Craig, you are spot on with your comments.

The folks at the LHS near the Woodinville Sub (you know which one,

The one that rhymes with Eastside Pains? :wink: That was my first job, and spent a many a paychecks on HO & then G…

#37

If it wasn’t for a USA trains starter set, i’d probably not have a garden railroad…

#38

I didn’t buy a starter set per-se, but rolled my own; A 4ft circle of Aristo track, and MRC power pack and a USA trains G-9. I’m still running the GP-9 on occasion. Can’t find the power pack (I think my son loaned it out) and the R1 track is sitting waiting for a need.

This got me going on the dining room table, and not to long after around the Christmas tree. The next spring I added some track and plunked it in the dirt outside. That got the ideas moving!

#39

Norman Bourgault said:

Hi Guys:

From the video:

Mike Wolf mentioned that the new Marklin LGB will produce models rather than the previous high quality toys. I doubt that the old LGB molds will not be used for further production of out of scale and out of proportion cars.

Mike Wolf made no mention that the Aristo and USA Trains product lines are scaled at 1:29 scale while the MTH product line is scaled at 1:32 scale thereby leaving MTH with an even smaller niche in the small niche largescale market.

The MTH Hudson 1:32 scale model was a great product ( super detail and great puffing smoke with sound ) which unfortunately was not accepted by the 1:29 scale market place hobbyists.

From Mike Wolf’s comment as to how small a niche market large scale is, I cannot see future new molds being created in 1:32 scale by MTH.

Norman

One man’s opinion, so what?

LGB is already reissuing new product using the existing moulds e.g. the Engadin Centennial set plus plus plus. While the new Allegra is not inexpensive it is good value - no, I don’t need one, wrong era.

LGB’s main business has always been quasi 1:22.5; the 1:26 through 1:29 was an afterthought or “me too” reaction.

Apart from that, Märklin has an extensive and expensive 1:32 line.

I give Mr. Wolf credit for producing a product that is the proper scale to gauge ratio. To me that is a lot more convincing than all the talk about “The WOW factor”.

#40

Steve Featherkile said:

Hans-Joerg Mueller said:

Steve Featherkile said:

Wellllll, I didn’t want to say that. I’ve already been yelled at (in bold type and all caps no less!) by a noob once this week. That’s enough. (http://www.freerails.com/images/emoticons/gerg.gif)

Sheesh, Steve. Are you turning sensitive on us?

Who, me? Nah… The noob is attacking me on another thread, Its gonna be an interesting day. Ya know what’s really fun, is to not answer the attacks, and just let the guy hang out there, exposed as the idiot he really is.

Wow. Going to take out a noob??? Is this your first one, or is there some other milestone we should be celebrating? You must be so proud.