Ignore the guy who comes on a track power thread and talks about batteries… it’s rude…
Greg
Back on topic… every different environment will have oxidation at a different rate.
There’s also tons of experience with putting a compound on the rails to retard oxidation.
The real bottom line is you will have to find out for yourself… There are people who run brass track and have hardly any oxidation, and then there are people like me, near the coast in San Diego, where the track oxidizes significantly overnight.
So, let me help you since I run DCC and started when everyone said it was IMPOSSIBLE outdoors.
- use quality rail clamps with an anti-oxidant grease right off… do NOT even consider using the stock joiners.
OR
- if you are handy, solder a solid wire jumper between sections, and leave a little roundish loop, so the wire is not in tension.
#1 is more expensive for sure, but more convenient when changing track (which is not as common as people make out)
#2 is very inexpensive, all you need is some solid wire, a big soldering iron and technique. It’s the best power conduction method.
Many people start out on track power, hook up the track, use a single feed point, and then very soon are dismayed at how stuff runs. Track is the foundation of your layout, and you need to invest the time/money to get it right.
This makes all the difference. Most people on battery give various reasons for giving up on track power, but virtually 100% started with connections destined to fail. Track power is cheaper and has more flexibility than battery, and way more features.
Do it right the first time, and you will be thanking me 10 years later. My layout is all stainless steel with Split Jaw SS clamps. Best money I ever spent… have only had to clean a bad connection about 4 times in almost 10 years, and I have about 850 feet of track.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
Ignore the guy who comes on a track power thread and talks about batteries… it’s rude…
Greg
Funny, when you are in the track and Trestles forum…
Does not matter if it is in the “spacemen and aliens” forum.
Basic respect for the OP (original poster) and his question.
It’s about a new member asking about brass track, DCC… how does it help anyone to reply that they have battery power?
It’s just plain rude and unhelpful. And woe betide anyone who comes on a battery power thread and talks about track power being better.
Come on John…
Greg
yeah I mis-read it and was just coming back to delete it.
My bad.
John
Regarding connections. Greg is correct regarding soldering a jumper wire. Invariably, dirt, rocks and stuff will work their way into the joiners, no matter what kind you decide on. I use Hillman’s, other people use Split-Jaw. Some folks swear by Split-Jaw, I just swear at them. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)No matter, grit is eventually going to interrupt the flow of 'Trons.
I borrowed a trick from my Lionel days to defeat voltage drop off. I used 12 gauge stranded wire designed for low voltage outdoor lighting. It has a lot of insulation to ward off the “slings and arrows” of outdoor life. I then dropped feeder wires of the same stuff, every 6 track connections. Voltage drop off occurs mostly at the track joints (jumper wires help, but do not solve, the problem), so adding a feeder wire effectively keeps all the track at constant voltage. I verified this with a meter, no drop off of voltage throughout the layout. Remember 6 track connections (joints), not 6 feet. It matters not if the track section is 6 feet, or 6 inches, it’s the joint that counts.
Staying on topic
I try to clean regularly but sometimes I don’t feel like it and might go weeks without cleaning
Steve Featherkile said:
… it’s the joint that counts.
Agreed! A good joint always makes cleaning go smoother.
Thanks for all the answers, guys.
Todd Brody said:
Steve Featherkile said:
… it’s the joint that counts.
Agreed! A good joint always makes cleaning go smoother.
There’s always one. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)
I swear by (not at) the track clamp and oxidization preventative paste (LGB/Massoth/Coppergrease/etc’) method. It’s probably the simplest and least labour intensive method to ensure reasonable consistency in track power. It is also easier to make track modification, in an evolving layout, than one that has had wires bonded at all the joints. Been doing it for twelve years on a track that is mainly in shade in the damp UK climate. I use a mix of LGB/Bachmann/Tenmille brass code 332 rail with plastic and wood sleepers) and all still works fine. I run DC for track power. I also run live steam and battery concurrently (no pun intended). No axe to grind.
Couple of points - If you are implementing this as a remedial action on an existing layout, when fitting rail joiners make sure you clean up the rail and joiners nice and bright where their surfaces mate. If you must use conventional rail joiners or over joiner clamps apply the same standards as mentioned for clamps. Apply the anti-oxidization not just to those surfaces but also to the threaded bolts/screws on the clamps (saves them seizing up). There is another make of clamp, proving popular in Europe, made by Massoth. Don’t forget a similar treatment where the power connectors feed into the rail.
I also have an Aristocraft 20 ft gondola (with some bits added to make it pass for 1:20.3) fitted with LGB’s #5005 spring loaded track cleaning device. Sorry I don’t have any pictures handy of it right now, Google - LGB 5005. I put that out in a consist at the start or during an operating session and find it sorts any little “slow spots” that may appear. Otherwise just a good wipe over the whole line with a fine abrasive pad on a long pivoted pole at the start of the season. pay particular attention to the switches/blades/frogs.
Thanks. I’ve already settled on using track clamps, if only for the physical connection. I work on very large 600V/1200HP DC motors (and their control systems) for a living, so I do know something of the subject. I’m always interested in how others handle preventive maintenance of their layouts.
Daniel,
I went with stainless steel track, so there is less maintenance, my railroad is open with no trees above it, so I clean my track maybe three times a year. Once definitely after ballasting in the spring. Having two young kids and working full time, I wanted to be able to run at the spur of the moment and not have to clean the track. I am glad I did.
Nico
4 Track Engineering
When measuring voltage for power loss on the track, you can be mislead. You really need a current meter with a resistor in series with it to force current through the joiners and a low resistance will show up right away. A volt meter will not draw enough current to show a low resistance condition.
I would go with at least a 10 ohm 50 watt resistor for a 24 volt track. This resistor will get hot!!
I agree. When measuring for the power loss across a rail joint, the voltmeter didn’t detect a power loss until the locomotive was on the rail, then I was able to measure a 3-4 volt difference across the joint.
For me, cleaning is based on how frequently I run trains and what trains I run. Cooler months when I run sparkies regularly, less cleaning is required. I have skates on a lot of my locos, so they’re (somewhat) cleaning the track as they go around. I was gone for part of the summer and then it was in the 100s, so I didn’t run trains for June and July. The track was pretty oxidized, but a single go-round with my cleaning pad on a pole and a couple loops with the LGB track cleaner and everything is good. If it has been a couple of weeks, just the track cleaner does the job. When I’ve run the live steamers for a full day, I run a swiffer to get up any oil that’s gotten onto the rails.
I too have #12 landscape lighting wire buried next to the track over the entire layout, with feeders dropped about every ten feet. This, combined with rail clamps means that I don’t usually have conductivity issues aside from the oxidization.
Daniel, I know you will appreciate this.
I’ll state the following for others, I know you know this: A common problem is finding a “bad joint” and people typically put voltage to the track and measure with a voltmeter. Since the amount of voltage “lost” in a bad connection is directly proportional to the current drawn, and a voltmeter draws an infinitesimal amount of current, they can’t find the problem.
So, I built a “load box” that I clip on the far end of the layout, and measure the voltage drop across the joiners themselves. My box draws 8 amps at 24 volts:
A cheaper alternative is a number of 24 volt light bulbs in parallel as shown by Cliff Jennings:
Makes quick work of checking connections.
Regards, Greg
Nice!
With voltmeter set on a low scale, you can measure the voltage drop across a joiner, rather than trying to take a voltage reading across both rails.
So you can quickly find the offending joiner. In about 10 years, have had only about 4, and also under load, a bad electrical connection will “sing” or buzz.
I have seen so many people give up on track power when a few simple tools and techniques can quickly isolate problems.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
With voltmeter set on a low scale, you can measure the voltage drop across a joiner, rather than trying to take a voltage reading across both rails.
So you can quickly find the offending joiner. In about 10 years, have had only about 4, and also under load, a bad electrical connection will “sing” or buzz.
I have seen so many people give up on track power when a few simple tools and techniques can quickly isolate problems.
Greg
No need to find an offending joiner if you hard solder (not jumper) BRASS rail from the start.