Large Scale Central

Hosed or not to be hosed that is the question

Modeling Rolling stock
#21

Guys thank you so much for tossing this around with me. the mystery continues. I shared the idea of it being left overs of the original owner with the real expert on this RR and he doesn’t like that theory. His understanding is that the cabooses were made by this railroad out of the Box cars they had on hand and not purchased that way. Why he believes this I don’t know I am waiting for a reply. But no matter who made them it is clear in at least one picture that the caboose is made from a particular box car and that these box cars in other photos do not show hoses. So still makes you wonder why the caboose would have hoses and the freight equipment doesn’t. you still have to get the pressurized air or vacuum to the cars in back.

He makes a point.

#22

Devon, it sounds like a good guess that they bought the equipment used, and they got what they got. So I can see tucking up the unused lines if the equipment had them.

I can see not adding breaks to equipment, but couplers would need to be standardized. Most link and pin couplers were similar enough, that so long as they were about the same height, they could be left as is.

As for converting cars, that is rather common. The Pittsburgh & Castle Shannon’s first passenger car was a converted boxcar. I have yet to find a picture or drawing of it.

#23

Ok then. Maybe the hoses were for something else. Could they have hauled, I dunno, water, lubricating oil, or kerosene in those cars. Or maybe what we think are hoses were something else, something not attached to the car, but very near the car on that siding.

#24

David Maynard said:

Ok then. Maybe the hoses were for something else. Could they have hauled, I dunno, water, lubricating oil, or kerosene in those cars. Or maybe what we think are hoses were something else, something not attached to the car, but very near the car on that siding.

I went through every photo I have and tried to identify which ones I could say for certain have what appear to be hoses/cables and the one offered is the only one I would say I am sure something, whatever is there. Even the coach photo I cant really say it is what I am seeing. I also have another caboose shot that clearly does not have them there.

What it is I don’t know. Where It came from I don’t know. For now it will just have to remain a mystery. Thanks again guys if nothing else it will will put little hooks in my mind for when I run across that key piece of info it will reach out an grab it and i will say aw ha that’s what it was.

#25

Ok what if I am totally wrong on every count. I had to go back and revisit this subject more, it was bugging me. I am now thinking everything I thought I knew is wrong. Sent a few emails back and forth with my guru John Wood and he set me straight on a few things that may shed light on this.

  1. I have no idea why I thought there were four cabooses. John says there was reportedly two cabooses at first and then a later mail car. In looking back at the photos I can positively identify three separate box car converts. The #42 is one clear example. What i believe is the #34 is a second clear example. and the third one I believe to be the #12 (though it looks like a #42). Now right click on the pictures and hit view image or whatever it says for you. I don’t want to shrink them so you all can take a close look should you care to. So view them in the album.

#42

#34

#12 (second 42)

  1. the first and second cabooses are built from the same type cars in the same fashion with the only notable difference being the number of windows. No porch, no ladders to the roof, different ends, different steps different trim over the door, and different lettering compared to the third car.

  2. the only one to have “hoses” is the odd ball #12. I went back and looked at the coaches hard and i don’t believe they have hoses either. So really the only “hoser” (that’s for our Canadian friends) is the #12.

So if my friend is right and there are two cabooses and a later mail car I think we have some winners, Now what would the “hoses” be on a mail car. Is there some weird mail car thing that would have two weird loopy things on the end?

I love research.

#26

I don’t think the mail car was a home-built job when comparing it to the two box-car converted cabooses. The side door slides on the inside as you’d expect on a baggage/express car or drover’s caboose. Also, the presence of a roof over the end platforms where the other two cars lack one tells me that is probably the original configuration of the car, and the railroad bought it 2nd-hand. The Tuscarora Valley RR had an almost identical RPO car, so i’d bet it was built by one of the common narrow gauge carbuilders. (Jackson & Sharp, Billmeyer & Smalls, etc.) The hoses would in all likelihood be original equipment to the car, simply unused by the CR&N, and tucked away.

Automatic train brakes on narrow gauge equipment weren’t common in the early 1880s, but not unheard of either–particularly on passenger and express equipment. (The Ohio River & Western had automatic brakes on its passenger equipment in 1880.) It’s possible this car could have been originally equipped with either Westinghouse air brakes or Eames vacuum brakes. That would account for one hose. The second, I think, is likely steam heat. Mail contracts stipulated that the mail car be heated in the winter, and these cars were often run immediately behind the locomotive so access to steam wouldn’t be an issue (provided the loco was so equipped to deliver it).

The CR&N likely didn’t have steam heat fittings on any of their locos, thus found it easier to just install a stove in the mail car to provide heat. So, having neither automatic brakes nor steam heat, the two connections would be of no use. It’s likely the car came equipped with some kind of hanger device for the hoses to keep them out of harm’s way when not in use, thus making it easy for the CR&N crews to simply leave them in place.

That’s my theory, and I’m stickin’ to it. (Until more evidence pops up, at least.)

Later,

K

#27

Kevin Strong said:

I don’t think the mail car was a home-built job when comparing it to the two box-car converted cabooses. The side door slides on the inside as you’d expect on a baggage/express car or drover’s caboose. Also, the presence of a roof over the end platforms where the other two cars lack one tells me that is probably the original configuration of the car, and the railroad bought it 2nd-hand. The Tuscarora Valley RR had an almost identical RPO car, so i’d bet it was built by one of the common narrow gauge carbuilders. (Jackson & Sharp, Billmeyer & Smalls, etc.) The hoses would in all likelihood be original equipment to the car, simply unused by the CR&N, and tucked away.

Automatic train brakes on narrow gauge equipment weren’t common in the early 1880s, but not unheard of either–particularly on passenger and express equipment. (The Ohio River & Western had automatic brakes on its passenger equipment in 1880.) It’s possible this car could have been originally equipped with either Westinghouse air brakes or Eames vacuum brakes. That would account for one hose. The second, I think, is likely steam heat. Mail contracts stipulated that the mail car be heated in the winter, and these cars were often run immediately behind the locomotive so access to steam wouldn’t be an issue (provided the loco was so equipped to deliver it).

The CR&N likely didn’t have steam heat fittings on any of their locos, thus found it easier to just install a stove in the mail car to provide heat. So, having neither automatic brakes nor steam heat, the two connections would be of no use. It’s likely the car came equipped with some kind of hanger device for the hoses to keep them out of harm’s way when not in use, thus making it easy for the CR&N crews to simply leave them in place.

That’s my theory, and I’m stickin’ to it. (Until more evidence pops up, at least.)

Later,

K

Kevin,

Thats the best theory yet. Do you have a photo of that RPO car. I would love to compare it.

Your analysis seems to fit all the oddities of this car. Especially the fact that it is the only car with hoses and why it would have two. If it is a later addition which my friend believe the mail car didn’t show up until 1889, it is likely it was brought in on the OR&N as a completely assembled unit. By 1889 the OR&N (though not called that, it was the Washington and Idaho) had standard gauge in the area tied to UP abroad. so bringing in a specialty car like this one would have been easy compared to doing it in 1886 when it would have had to come by boat. I believe this is why el cheapo converted box cars in the first place. Also by 1889 the CR&N was fully leased by NPRR and el cheapo was counting his cash and was on to other adventures.

I am going to run your theory by my friend to see what sticks.

Thanks Kevin

#28

Devon
So are you going to include these hoses when you build this car?

#29

Sean McGillicuddy said:

Devon
So are you going to include these hoses when you build this car?

I wouldn’t be much of a rivet counter if I didn’t. Yes they will be on my car for sure. And as this seems to be such an oddity on my RR It will for sure get modeled. But it has to wait. Finishing the loco and tender, two coaches, the 1st #42 and an “oil only” box car are ahead of it in line. It all has to do with modeling a certain picture I have, but can not share online with you per a handshake agreement with its owner. So the mail car will wait. I am already stretching it because the 1st #42 is part of that mixed train picture.

Have to stay focused. But this is as much about the history as it is the modeling. Its the dang book creeping up in the back ground.