The more I think about this the more I’m certain that once my subscription in up I will not renew, many reasons, mostly I just don’t need a magazine that would be probably 90% not what I was interested in. I guess that means eventually my access to GR forum will also go away, not that there’s a lot going on there anymore. Back in the early 2000’s it could give this site LSOL and MLS a run for its money on activity. But somewhere along the way all that activity went away, probably because they began requiring an active subscription to access the site, too bad had some great conversations back in the day there. Anyways, all things come to an end, just keep moving forward.
Well I enjoyed the magazine, was hoping the quarterly would add to more content( didn’t) hoping the new editor(s they just changed again) would bring something to the table, newest guy must have been put in place to close it down.
I really enjoyed the layouts, the pictures and the drawn track plans were my favorite parts. You would think things could continue online, but like Vic said why get a magazine that has 1-3 pages that are what I’m subscribed for, I need to look at my last one to see how many MR issues I will be getting before my subscription runs out, hopefully at least a couple to be able to fairly judge what they are adding for us in the HO magazine
Website like this have done away with magazines for me, you will hear and see it way before a magazine could get published and available to the public. I remember the day I purchase magazines just to get the Watts Train Shop and Train World ads so I could purchase something new at a reasonable price.
trainman
Derailed said:
And I just renewed. Sigh
You should call and cancel, because they are only honoring the roll over issue per issue, which means that your paying the full GR subscription price for only 4 issues of MR.
The only G scale magazine that’s left is “Steam in the Garden”
(I’m not counting the British magazines).
Pete Lassen said:
…newest guy must have been put in place to close it down…
Hal was just as surprised as anyone. He was working on long-term content plans. I had just submitted my next column and also got my “due dates” for the next four issues. Things were looking positive.
I’m shocked, but let’s be realistic. It’s been on borrowed time for years–even before they let Marc go. It’s not just GR that’s been struggling there. The same has/will happen to other magazines they publish. Print media across the spectrum are having a hard go of it. It’s definitely a loss for the hobby, though.
The question–what next? There will be garden railway coverage in MR, but the extent of that remains to be seen. I don’t think it will be enough to carry a significant number of GR subscribers long-term. (I’d love to be proved wrong on this.) Will Steam in the Garden broaden its scope? Is there someone with the time/energy/passion/money to start something new from the ground up? Is there a new business model that includes a much greater emphasis on digital and interactivity? Nature abhors a vacuum and people are thirsty for information. That’s the good thing. Be interesting to see what develops in GR’s wake.
Later,
K
From my perspective they folded a long time ago
Gary Buchanan, FOG said:
From my perspective they folded a long time ago
I agree, Gary. My subscription lapsed a few years ago.
I think the thing for me is when I was new in the hobby I just had a lot to learn - so I bought a lot of books and subscribed to anything I felt would help. After a few years, the articles just seemed repetitive - but that’s also necessary as there are new folks coming in all the time.
I think the next question is how do we attract them AND keep them at LSC? For me, LSC provides a wonderful resource and lets me connect with old friends. But, IF I were starting out today, would I even be able to find this site AND would I hang around hoping to learn something new? Or, would it feel like I stumbled into an Old Boys Club and feel excluded?
I don’t know. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)
Bruce Chandler said:
I think the next question is how do we attract them AND keep them at LSC? For me, LSC provides a wonderful resource and lets me connect with old friends. But, IF I were starting out today, would I even be able to find this site AND would I hang around hoping to learn something new? Or, would it feel like I stumbled into an Old Boys Club and feel excluded?
I don’t know. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)
Well, a lot of us certainly are old boys. Even Rooster is close to fitting in that category with a kid in college!
My timeline is a bit foggy; but this is how I remember becoming one of the “old boys”. Early on I found this group is a lot more approachable than many. When I first started, I attended an ECLSTS show and went to the MLS hospitality room after the show. I’m not very outgoing and I felt very alone in that group. No one offed up any conversation except to their “buddies”. The following year I attended one of the Annual Rodent parties that evolved over the years into the Drag & Brag promoted by LSC. I was comfortable and welcomed into the group, making lots of new friends. I have been hanging around here on LSC ever since!
My advice to the long-time members here is to notice the new folks when they post. Say hello even if you can’t answer their question. Don’t be put off if their idea of model railroading does not fit your vision for your railroad. Remember MIK for all that he was and wasn’t.
Gary Buchanan, FOG said:
From my perspective they folded a long time ago
Yes. But I kept my subscription and kept hoping. I had also been working on article submissions for building some of my 3d printed designs. Maybe I will sent to MR and see what happens.
-Dan
Bruce Chandler said:
I think the next question is how do we attract them AND keep them at LSC? For me, LSC provides a wonderful resource and lets me connect with old friends. But, IF I were starting out today, would I even be able to find this site AND would I hang around hoping to learn something new? Or, would it feel like I stumbled into an Old Boys Club and feel excluded?
Good point Bruce. I’m not sure if I’m an Old boy (I’m 53.5) but I’ve found the majority of folks here are primarily steam era. (that’s steam era modelers - not necessarily steam era people) I personally do not necessarily feel “excluded” But I have noticed when I post one of my builds, Many view the topic and few comment which is why I’ve been posting more on Facebook groups as I find there is more interest there. Unfortunately, there are typical Facebook people there too. I’m here because even though most of the content is not of the era I am most interested in, I appreciate the Talent, Techniques and Creativity. People creating rather than “look! I took a picture of something I bought. Click like so I think you envy me!” No FEF, TET, or Mail Call here!
Jon Radder said:
My advice to the long-time members here is to notice the new folks when they post. Say hello even if you can’t answer their question. Don’t be put off if their idea of model railroading does not fit your vision for your railroad. Remember MIK for all that he was and wasn’t.
Well said Jon
All this begs the question, what IS the format/business model for a digital-age hobby resource?
Forums are nice, but Bruce’s points are quite valid. You have to know where to look and what to look for once you get there. There’s no organized way for folks to find information, and the “search” bar may as well be a roulette wheel in terms of finding answers to questions. On top of that, you have the “old guard” that tends to respond to newbies’ questions with a sense of hostility, forgetting we all started out knowing nothing. I think the forums’ strength lies in its interactivity, but even that had died down precipitously from where it was 10 years ago. Used to be we would post build logs and get pages of discussions about how we did things. Now we’re lucky to get one or two “that’s cool” kinds of posts. That’s largely why I switched to posting my builds on my blog instead of the forums. Few ask questions on my blog, either, but it’s at least there in one place and I can point people to it.
Facebook is great for immediate interaction with people, but it has no permanence. Conversations started today are lost to the depths of your news feed tomorrow. There are almost too many groups for any given subject to where you can’t even remember where you saw something if you were to want to go back and look for it later. I liken Facebook to showing up to a club meeting. You can see what folks are doing, see their latest toys, maybe pick up a tip or two, but it’s all a memory the next day. It’s definitely not something a reader/viewer can come to and peruse to soak up information.
Personal web sites can be fantastic resources for modelers, but like the forums, the viewer needs to know where to find them. If you Google “Garden Railroad Tips,” none of the sites I like to reference (Greg Elmassian’s or Dave Bodnar’s sites, 4LargeScale, even LSC and MLS) don’t come up in the first 10 pages of results. Some of those that do come up offer very little information or haven’t been updated since diesels replaced steam locos. (Heck, even my own blog goes months, sometimes nearly a year without updates.)
With the stipulation that an old-school print publication is not an option (cost-prohibitive), what ideas do you have for a digital-age resource for garden railroaders? What would you like to see (not specific content, but the way its presented), and how would you see yourself accessing it? What is missing from our current array of garden railway media that perhaps could be done?
Later,
K
Kevin Strong said:
All this begs the question, what IS the format/business model for a digital-age hobby resource?
With the stipulation that an old-school print publication is not an option (cost-prohibitive), what ideas do you have for a digital-age resource for garden railroaders? What would you like to see (not specific content, but the way its presented), and how would you see yourself accessing it? What is missing from our current array of garden railway media that perhaps could be done?
Later,
K
I think this is the point we need to address. There’s basically 3 “tiers” (possibly more): beginner, “average”, “old fart™”.
BEGINNERS: Hopefully, there will always be beginners and we REALLY need to accommodate them - they are not only our future friends but also the future of the hobby. Heck, if they’re “old guys™” then they have A LOT of questions and need help just to navigate the site - nothing is obvious. They’re going to be overwhelmed with the stuff here and need some structure so they can easily find what they need (and they don’t even KNOW what they need. It has to be easy.
AVERAGE: There’s GOT to be a better term for this, but these guys have probably built a layout or two and are probably just looking for new techniques or ideas to try.
Old Fart™: ME!(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif) Who knows what they need/want? (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-embarassed.gif)Maybe they just want to help the new guys out, or maybe they just want to be left alone and not put up with the newbies? They “remember” the old days when dinosaurs walked the earth and you had to go to the mailbox once a month to get your dose of inspiration - and they love to tell everyone how hard it used to be; they can read about the new technology and it seems easy enough, but they struggle with it; perhaps they are just old beginners?
So, a digital site has to:
- Be easy to use for all levels. Pictures and videos have to be easy to post.
- Provide some structure. Some folks can easily find stuff with a search - others need some sort of structure so they can be guided.
- Have a gallery of sites (pictures) the provide inspiration.
- Have a data base of EASY to find ideas; or at least easy to search. Some sites have a search engine that seems like IF you know the EXACT terminology, you MIGHT be able to find what you are looking for; others seem to have a search engine that is flexible, but still allows for Boolean Logic for the more expert type of searches. You need to have to find something, while excluding other terms (or junk you DON’T want included in the results.)
- Probably some other items - I’ll leave this for the reader (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)
I don’t post much here anymore because well, there’s not much interaction compared to Facebook. To post a build log here, I have to upload photos to my Flickr account (that’s easy), copy the url (that’s easy), and then type a thread, embed the pictures and wait… And wait. Some threads will get a response others not so much.
Am I in the old fart category because I’ve been in 1/29 now for 20 years, but I’m only 35? Or am I in the young crowd?
Some posts/build logs get no responses other than a “thats cool”. Meanwhile, over on Facebook I can post the same photo from my phone to a specific group that is actually interested in the method, etc. For example, right now I’m building a MOW shack specific to a prototype and location. I can post to a group “BN modelers” that focuses solely on BN modeling. I might still get a “that’s cool” type of response, but it seems that there is less focus on that type of stuff. For instance the building I’m working on right now came as a direct result,of helping another modeler cut out the same building in HO scale.
Also, as long as I’ve been around thus website, it seems to be heavily focused on a core group of friends that live on the east coast. I feel like an outsider, and honestly get tired of the inside jokes. I’d rather text, email or facebook my close geographical friends about projects because I have a higher percentage of them meeting me in person.
Craig Townsend said:
I don’t post much here anymore because well, there’s not much interaction compared to Facebook. To post a build log here, I have to upload photos to my Flickr account (that’s easy), copy the url (that’s easy), and then type a thread, embed the pictures and wait… And wait. Some threads will get a response others not so much.
Am I in the old fart category because I’ve been in 1/29 now for 20 years, but I’m only 35? Or am I in the young crowd?
Some posts/build logs get no responses other than a “thats cool”. Meanwhile, over on Facebook I can post the same photo from my phone to a specific group that is actually interested in the method, etc. For example, right now I’m building a MOW shack specific to a prototype and location. I can post to a group “BN modelers” that focuses solely on BN modeling. I might still get a “that’s cool” type of response, but it seems that there is less focus on that type of stuff. For instance the building I’m working on right now came as a direct result,of helping another modeler cut out the same building in HO scale.
Also, as long as I’ve been around thus website, it seems to be heavily focused on a core group of friends that live on the east coast. I feel like an outsider, and honestly get tired of the inside jokes. I’d rather text, email or facebook my close geographical friends about projects because I have a higher percentage of them meeting me in person.
VERY interesting post. I wonder…mostly because I made a special trip out west to see Dave Goodson as well as Richard Smith in Port Orford, but how many of us can REALLY do THAT? And, I DO think that there’s a LOT of allowances for folks you have met in person. Do we need more categories? Or, do we somehow need to discourage “that’s cool” types of posts?
Bruce,
I would love to have the time and money to go out to the East coast, but I’m sure my wife wouldn’t go for a all trains trip…
To be bluntly honest, I’m sick of the “are you done yet” and drunk posts. If I wanted that I would go to my local bar and drink with the drunks.
Craig Townsend said:
Bruce,
I would love to have the time and money to go out to the East coast, but I’m sure my wife wouldn’t go for a all trains trip…
To be bluntly honest, I’m sick of the “are you done yet” and drunk posts. If I wanted that I would go to my local bar and drink with the drunks.
Too true. All trains, all the time may NOT be a key to a successful marriage.
What kind of response would you scratch/bash builders like to have? I’m always puzzled as to how to respond. I do read each one that I come to, though, and if I have an intelligent question, I’ll ask it. That happens rarely, because I really haven’t gotten much feedback on my questions.
Very early on, I haunted “the other site,” but the first time that I asked a question, the first response I got was, “Do we have to go through that again? Use the search engine.” That was the last time I went there. I’m glad that I found LSC. I try to welcome each new member. I remember being welcomed here. It was almost a roast, but I felt like I belonged.
Steve Featherkile said:
What kind of response would you scratch/bash builders like to have? I’m always puzzled as to how to respond. I do read each one that I come to, though, and if I have an intelligent question, I’ll ask it. That happens rarely, because I really haven’t gotten much feedback on my questions.
Very early on, I haunted “the other site,” but the first time that I asked a question, the first response I got was, “Do we have to go through that again? Use the search engine.” That was the last time I went there. I’m glad that I found LSC. I try to welcome each new member. I remember being welcomed here. It was almost a roast, but I felt like I belonged.
It’s really not about what others may want; I think it’s more about what you would like to see.
Steve,
I would follow up with Bruce’s comment. I have no problem posting build threads if people are interested, but its hard to know how many people are interested, or what part of the build is the most interesting part when all you read is “that’s cool”.