Large Scale Central

Garden R.R. Magazine, Is it worth $7.00 ? Rant on

General Discussion
#41

I hear you all about being “magazine guys” and personally agree that holding a paper magazine or a real book beats a digital edition or a Kindle hands down for me. But that is not where the market is headed. Just look at what has gone nearly exclusively to digital delivery in the last few years…

Audio CD’s - There used to be chain and local record stores everywhere. They are all gone except for the vinyl boutiques. Wal Mart and a few other retailers still carry some and you can still buy on-line, but the market has solidly shifted to digital delivery. I heard on the news today that digital music sales exceeded CD sales last year.

DVD’s (and/or VHS Tapes) - Blockbuster and most of the other big rental chains are GONE. And they killed all the Mom & Pops before they went belly up. Red Box machines are loosing floor space daily They are next to disappear. Again, digital delivery is taking over. Get yourself a Roku player or a Net compatible Blu Ray player and you can sign up with Amazon and rent (or buy) anything you want for $3-5 for a 72 hour rental and get instant delivery right to your TV! There’s also NetFlix, but their streaming library is lackluster and never includes new releases.

Newspapers are loosing readership daily. Most have digital editions that are free but be prepared to be deluged with advertising.

And Kodak, once the premier film and camera maker in the wold is announcing bankruptcy. They got on the digital camera bandwagon too late and with poor product. They tried clinging to film to the bitter end, but it killed them. They only survived the last few years by selling off some of their patents.

Digital Editions for magazines make market sense. If done right they can be a pleasure to read. If publishers like Klambake would offer up a digital editions on a per-issue basis I’d probably buy a few per year. I dropped GR a few years ago due to cost Vs. enjoyment, but I would still buy an issue now an again off the local train store. He’s recently moved outside of my travel circle, so that option is gone for me.

#42

Doug,

Just happened to notice a thread about the digital edition being added to the offerings of GR while reading the GR Forum. I still get the paper copy, great reading in the private reading room. And I agree with many of the above comments both for and against hard copy. Whether to purchase the hard copy or the digital copy or no copy at all is a personal thing, based on the value perceived by the individual modeler.

MHO, nothing more…

Bob C.

#43

I’ve been a loyal subscriber back to the days before Marc sold it off. I do agree with Jon, how people communicate and get their media is changing and media has to change with it. Being the spokesperson for a rather large government agency, I do track the media and media trends very closely and the outlook is poor at best. I will not even go into citizen journalism because that is another scary topic.

GR’s website sucks in my opinion. I rarely go to it anymore because of the layout and navigation. Besides why even bother since the same posts get cross posted like 3-4 times, then the model/project shows up in the magazine!

Even though this can be polarizing, it is a good discussion.

John

#44

I can sort of see the attraction of digital books, if it’s just some cheap novel that you’ll only read once and then toss. A modeling magazine is something else (or at least, it should be).

So far I’ve never seen an ebook device that was as large as the pages of a magazine, or had the image quality of a magazine. I’ve never seen a digital magazine that you can leave in a doctor’s office for others to enjoy, or loan to a friend, or sell as a collector’s item.

A print magazine doesn’t force me to buy an expensive piece of electronics just to read it. A print magazine doesn’t need batteries or charging, and can be read anywhere at anytime.

A print magazine can be saved and cherished for decades, without the file format becoming corrupted or obsolete.

Digital publishing poses problems for the publisher too, such as the all-too-real risk of online piracy. If you sell someone a digital mag, how do you prevent them from letting everyone on the planet download it for free?

And without print magazines in stores, you lose impulse buyers and new readers who otherwise would never even know your magazine exists.

#45
Ray Dunakin said:
And without print magazines in stores, you lose impulse buyers and new readers who otherwise would never even know your magazine exists.
Bingo ! I bet there are a bunch of people who where introduced to the hobby by the magazine. Ralph
#46

So, what are you looking for in THIS magazine? I find that I can pick up NG&SL, or MR, or RMC and say the same type of things echoed here. I’m looking for ideas - maybe I can write another article. :wink:

#47

Unless you have a very large, high-resolution monitor, no electronically-based medium (computer, iPad, iPhone) can hold a candle to a well-layed-out, two-page, magazine spread, especially one printed on high-quality paper, which is rare these days. What’s more, except for quick-hit, how-to articles, most of the real stories in GR such as Kevin’s lighting series, are probably more than 1000 words long. Now I don’t know about you, but my eyes glaze over after reading a couple of hundred words on my 22-inch computer monitor. As for printing out the stuff you like, I go through reams of paper archiving stuff from MLS. The quality sucks, I wind up with hundreds of pages all flying around (a magazine page is printed on both sides and stapled or stitched together with all the other pages). And like Bruce or Ray mentioned, magazines are something you can read anywhere, save, etc.

As for the “they don’t print anything I’m interested in” argument–I’m sure Marc would love to know just what you would like to see in GR. And he does a pretty good job trying to guess just what that might be. But he’s playing to a very diverse audience with interests that are all over the map, so you’ll have to excuse him if he guesses wrong. As the saying goes, “You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.”

#48
Joe Rusz said:
Unless you have a very large, high-resolution monitor, no electronically-based medium (computer, iPad, iPhone) can hold a candle to a well-layed-out, two-page, magazine spread, especially one printed on high-quality paper, which is rare these days. What's more, except for quick-hit, how-to articles, most of the real stories in GR such as Kevin's lighting series, are probably more than 1000 words long. Now I don't know about you, but my eyes glaze over after reading a couple of hundred words on my 22-inch computer monitor. As for printing out the stuff you like, I go through reams of paper archiving stuff from MLS. The quality sucks, I wind up with hundreds of pages all flying around (a magazine page is printed on both sides and stapled or stitched together with all the other pages). And like Bruce or Ray mentioned, magazines are something you can read anywhere, save, etc.

As for the “they don’t print anything I’m interested in” argument–I’m sure Marc would love to know just what you would like to see in GR. And he does a pretty good job trying to guess just what that might be. But he’s playing to a very diverse audience with interests that are all over the map, so you’ll have to excuse him if he guesses wrong. As the saying goes, “You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time.”


I know garden railways puts a reader survey out on what we like and dislike. If enough people write to Marc maybe they can come up with something. Im sure they want to make as may people happy with the magazine as they can. The last thing they want is people not to like the magazine. After all we as the buyers are the ones supporting the magazine. If no one buys it then why have a magazine. I think most people who subscribe to Garden Railroad dont use these forums. Between the two clubs I belong to maybe one or two use forums the rest use garden Railroad as a source for information.
Bruce brought up a good point what are you looking for in GR?
Maybe that could be are next challenge. Write an article for garden Railways.

#49

One of the problems - the same can be said of a Forum of course - is that when you have built a railroad and got most of the structures you need then much of what is in the magazines is ‘old news’ so as to speak. I appreciate the difficulties involved: the magazine is only as good as articles submitted but of late there does seem to have been more of a ‘open house’ feel than articles for constructors. Jack Verducci’s articles were always good and whilst the late Peter Jones style of railroading did not appeal to me his ‘scribblings’ were always interesting to read.

Maybe that is what we miss and Marc has not yet been able to replace these type of articles. One important thing, in my view, is that we often look at other railroads for inspiration relating to locos, rolling stock and structure; whereas I have never copied, or been inspired, by horticultural articles. After all all our back yards are different, some have very small areas available others large open areas, also what grows in one place does not always grow in another

One annoying feature of the GR Forum is that their reader/Forum Member surveys always finish before the magazine is in UK shops!

#50

What I would like to see is $7.00 worth of a magazine not 90 pages of the same old reused stuff.

I can more than afford $7.00 for the magazine, and rather have the magazine version over the online version

but the content over the years has mostly gotten worse for what I’d like to see and I refuse to submit articles

so a company can make money and I have to pay to read my own stuff. I’d much rather write the article for this

and other forums were everyone could see. and next to the 90 page thing as stated, I’m tired of seeing mostly

narrow Gauge stuff in every issue. Change it up every once in a while or face the possibility of going under.

I do talk with the local Hobby shop and I’ve been told that he’s been slowly removing certain magazines because of the

Company’s return policy’s and fact that sales are weak and the readership is down, prices are to high and theres is hardly

any profit in them. He stocks them only as a curtsy to his customers that’s all.

I myself will no longer be buying it till they add some more modern stuff on a consistent basis and improve the size

of the Magazine. I feel no sorrow for Marc or his staff, they get paid to do a job… just do it or maybe let a new

younger set of people in that have more enthusiasm and can think outside the box.

Or maybe as a last resort I should just lower my expectations of the magazine.
Nick

#51
Bruce Chandler said:
So, what are you looking for in THIS magazine? I find that I can pick up NG&SL, or MR, or RMC and say the same type of things echoed here. I'm looking for ideas - maybe I can write another article. ;)
Exactly. I not only get ideas from the features, but also from the adds. I find the articles on other people's layouts interesting and it's also interesting getting another person's perspective about the hobby. I also happen to enjoy the gardening aspect of it and learn a lot from what others have experienced, what works for them and what doesn't. Although I consider myself an experienced modeler, there's always something new to learn.

When I first started I devoured every edition, till it was dog-eared. Not so much anymore since I found my niche in this hobby. But there’s still a wealth of knowledge out there and GR is just one more avenue. Is it worth 7 bucks? Depends on what you’re looking for. I didn’t realize it cost $7, since I renew it when Kalmbach sends a flyer around with a special offer every year.

This month has articles on weathering, making figures, and kitbashing. I just may learn a thing or two from one of them.

#52
Nicholas Savatgy said:
I refuse to submit articles

so a company can make money and I have to pay to read my own stuff.


Nick,
They PAY you for articles…
And they’ll send you a free (advance) copy of the issue your article appears in

Ralph

#53

Subscription is $5.00, seriously it’s just not that significant. Doesn’t mean we can’t ask for more but it’s just not a big budget item.

I’d miss the mag more than the $5.00.

#54
Nicholas Savatgy said:
What I would like to see is $7.00 worth of a magazine not 90 pages of the same old reused stuff.

I can more than afford $7.00 for the magazine, and rather have the magazine version over the online version

but the content over the years has mostly gotten worse for what I’d like to see and I refuse to submit articles

so a company can make money and I have to pay to read my own stuff. I’d much rather write the article for this

and other forums were everyone could see. and next to the 90 page thing as stated, I’m tired of seeing mostly

narrow Gauge stuff in every issue. Change it up every once in a while or face the possibility of going under.

I do talk with the local Hobby shop and I’ve been told that he’s been slowly removing certain magazines because of the

Company’s return policy’s and fact that sales are weak and the readership is down, prices are to high and theres is hardly

any profit in them. He stocks them only as a curtsy to his customers that’s all.

I myself will no longer be buying it till they add some more modern stuff on a consistent basis and improve the size

of the Magazine. I feel no sorrow for Marc or his staff, they get paid to do a job… just do it or maybe let a new

younger set of people in that have more enthusiasm and can think outside the box.

Or maybe as a last resort I should just lower my expectations of the magazine.
Nick


Nick,
If I’m reading between the lines you want two things before you buy another issue of GR. First the magazine has to be ~100+ pages regardless of the content, and secondly it must have modern mainline modeling, and very little narrow gauge. I think you’re setting your self up for failure with both these points. If content is solely based on length, then anyone can publish 100+ pages of crappy content and get away with your ‘requirement’ of having a large mag. Personally I’d like to see more content in the mag, but I know that GR can’t do that, until they decided too. Until then I’m happy with ~70-90pages of well written articles. I’ve never noticed a proofreading mistake in GR, where as I’ve found numerous proofreading mistakes in novels and books that are in the 300-500 page range. Not that the two are similar. I’m simply saying the less content should equal higher quality.

Secondly, I too am a modern mainline modeler (1970 BN, okay not that modern but compared to the 1890’s-1920 it is). While I enjoy reading articles about narrow gauge and modern mainline projects I can read both and apply the techniques to my own layout. I think as a majority most LS modelers do model in NG, not SG. Even then the few that do model in SG have a very limited layout size. That said, I believe that GR does try to represent both sizes of the equation. Using 1 single issue doesn’t provide a good example, you have to look at the overall mean of the issues.

But everyone including me has been asking “What do you NICK WANT in GR?” So answer the question and let us know! List the things you want to see, and then maybe some of us that have a desire to write and get published will start working on an article.

(As a side note: If I published an article in GR, should I include that in my CV as a Historian?.. LOL I’d call that padding a CV just a tad to much! :slight_smile:

Craig

#55

I’m looking forward to resubscribing to GR when they get the digital edition going.

I’ll be able to download it to my iPad and enlarge it with my fingers! Not only is it handy for my poor eyesight but if the picture quality is good readers can enlarge the photos to see those details and get even more project ideas to work on!

If someone happens to see a form online for subscribing to the digital edition let us know.

#56

Doug if you go to the GR web site and click subscribtions, scroll down a little and you can get a on-line only subscribtion.

#57

The only thing I have found so far is the “opportunity” to buy the print and digital versions in a “bundle.” In other words you buy a print copy and then give them another $10 for a digital copy!

#58
Doug Arnold said:
The only thing I have found so far is the "opportunity" to buy the print and digital versions in a "bundle." In other words you buy a print copy and then give them another $10 for a digital copy!
Directly under the statement about bundling is this:

Interested in getting Garden Railway’s print and digital subscription bundle? Scroll down to Additional Items to add the digital subscription for only $10 more!

Digital Subscription Only? Click Here

That gets you to the link to subscribe to ONLY the digital version of the magazine. Should be what you’re looking for.

mt

#59

Ray Dunakin said:
I can sort of see the attraction of digital books, if it’s just some cheap novel that you’ll only read once and then toss. A modeling magazine is something else (or at least, it should be). So far I’ve never seen an ebook device that was as large as the pages of a magazine, or had the image quality of a magazine. I’ve never seen a digital magazine that you can leave in a doctor’s office for others to enjoy, or loan to a friend, or sell as a collector’s item. A print magazine doesn’t force me to buy an expensive piece of electronics just to read it. A print magazine doesn’t need batteries or charging, and can be read anywhere at anytime. A print magazine can be saved and cherished for decades, without the file format becoming corrupted or obsolete. Digital publishing poses problems for the publisher too, such as the all-too-real risk of online piracy. If you sell someone a digital mag, how do you prevent them from letting everyone on the planet download it for free? And without print magazines in stores, you lose impulse buyers and new readers who otherwise would never even know your magazine exists.

Exactly! this is the primary reason I still have a subscription, and I still rifle through and collect old issues of the Gazette. If you take care of them they STAY intact and usable for decades, when everything goes digital, then it can get iffy in this day and age when you can open your computer and find everything corrupted and unusable, and unless you have backed everything up or keep copies on thumbdrives, and how long before those formats become obsolete, I cant open some files that I saved in 2000 because the file format has been rendered obsolete. I’m sorry but this new digital age requirs quite alot of time and trouble to stay current, too much time and trouble in my book, thats why I will always opt for the hard copy, either a real magazine, or a real DVD or CD, all this digital stuff is in reality air none of it really physically exists, and once you drop your iPad or open that infected email or the Chinese decide to launch a e-war and suddenly the entire internet is a wall of dancing hampsters, all that air becomes totally useless. Sorry if that sound ludittian but I’m sick and tired of being pushed to use technology I dont necessarliy want.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Hampster_dance.gif)

#60
Mark V said:
I always place my GR issues in my computer bag un-read...I tend to travel a fair bit and I appreciate them on a long flight.

Chris, I checked out “Garden Rail”. Was happy to see those Brit’s publish in english, :wink:

I will have to sign up for that one, neat stuff!


What language did you expect to find the UK GR printed in? Serbo Croat :slight_smile: