Living in Southwest woodlands is always a hazard. What John said is correct. This time most higher elevation forests were spared. The warming climate puts woodland (lower elevation) environments in ever increased danger of fire. Forest management has little to do with it. Softwood coniferous forests are like match sticks with roots. Once a fire takes hold and crowns to the tree tops all bets are off in even the best “managed” forests. I too feel deeply sorry for those folks that have lost their homes and livelihoods and some, their lives. The same thing happened here in NM a few years ago in Los Alamos, NM. Most of the residential community was lost. Rebuilding is slow and painful. I continue to send my thoughts and prayers to those who are suffering.
Ray,
Having survived the Laguna Canyon Mudslides, I know you want that scrub brush holding the hills together.
I imagine rebuilding a home is cheaper than trying to rebuild the hill… there are no easy answers as we adjust to the new climate.
I moved out of the canyon…
Shame is, even with a good fire break, if the wind is right, and there are hot embers swirling in the breeze, a fire can still jump even a good fire break.
If its not fires its floods, or tornadoes, or hurricanes, or…each of us lives in a climate with its own challenges. Here in western PA, several homes have been lost, and more are in danger, because a hillside decided it was time to relocate into the valley below.
I feel bad for the victims of all of these tragedies.
I don’t know if there are any real answers John.
A fire break doesn’t do much when the embers are known to start new fires over 3 miles away during Santa Ana winds. Massive fires create their own weather systems, including tornados that can lift embers to great heights.
I spoke with my cousin in Paradise yesterday. It was a pretty harrowing experience and she drove though walls of flames before having to abandon the car and go 3 miles on foot to the evacuation center. She said that the town is about 70% gone. From the TV reports, we thought almost nothing was left standing.
Her insurance company has already offered the value of the home the day before the fire, or $1.2M to rebuild on the site. She wanted to buy her neighbor’s home on sale a block away, but it also burned.
BION, some people actually make out better (e.g., those wanting to sell or with outdated structures), but it is still a PITA. And of course you loose all those irreplaceables. My cousin now commutes 2-1/2 hours, each way, to her shop in Oroville from her place in Tahoe 3-4 days a week and works from her computer at home the other days.
to rebuild on the site.
Why would anyone want to rebuild after a fire like that in exactly the same place? The world is getting warmer, folks, so these fires will become more commonplace.
And at the risk of sounding political [I hope it comes across as pragmatic] who is paying for all these firefighters to try to save the homes in the path of the fire? Everyone else’s property taxes, I suspect.
Here on the waterfront, flood insurance is getting astronomically expensive, as FEMA has been told to recover the $b it lost in Katrina, etc. And you can’t get insurance for more than $250,000, so any more than that and you pay the difference. Maybe it’s time fire insurance was set up the same way, so that the homes in “Paradise” don’t get rebuilt exactly in the same place and burned down again in a few years.
Pete Thornton said:
to rebuild on the site.
Why would anyone want to rebuild after a fire like that in exactly the same place? The world is getting warmer, folks, so these fires will become more commonplace.
And at the risk of sounding political [I hope it comes across as pragmatic] who is paying for all these firefighters to try to save the homes in the path of the fire? Everyone else’s property taxes, I suspect.
Here on the waterfront, flood insurance is getting astronomically expensive, as FEMA has been told to recover the $b it lost in Katrina, etc. And you can’t get insurance for more than $250,000, so any more than that and you pay the difference. Maybe it’s time fire insurance was set up the same way, so that the homes in “Paradise” don’t get rebuilt exactly in the same place and burned down again in a few years.
Rebuilding on site is less expensive, after a big fire the majority of the old growth fuel sources are now gone, there not much left to burn. Also any newly rebuilt homes would have to meet all current fire codes, many of the homes that burned here, and in Santa Rosa earlier and down here in Newbury Park were older more vulnerable homes. Many communities in the edges between suburban and wild now have very strict codes about brush clearance, allowable building materials and land uses that are intended to lessen the risk of wildfires. I will add that in rural places like Paradise that are right in there among the forest trees, there is literally no where 100% safe to rebuild, there are thousands of communities like this throughout the western United States, can’t abandon them all and move in behind fire walled cities.
Pete Thornton said:
to rebuild on the site.
Why would anyone want to rebuild after a fire like that in exactly the same place? The world is getting warmer, folks, so these fires will become more commonplace.
And at the risk of sounding political [I hope it comes across as pragmatic] who is paying for all these firefighters to try to save the homes in the path of the fire? Everyone else’s property taxes, I suspect.
Here on the waterfront, flood insurance is getting astronomically expensive, as FEMA has been told to recover the $b it lost in Katrina, etc. And you can’t get insurance for more than $250,000, so any more than that and you pay the difference. Maybe it’s time fire insurance was set up the same way, so that the homes in “Paradise” don’t get rebuilt exactly in the same place and burned down again in a few years.Pete,
You actually weren’t “political” AND anyone who says it is, is being wat too sensitive. I actually own a second home in the San Bernardino Mountains (Angeles National Forest). Less than 50 miles from my suburban home in Burbank, CA. The area is dense forest of Ponderosa and Douglas Fir. Logging has NEVER been allowed. We had a serious wildfire in August 2016, which came very, very close to destroyng the village (similar fire to Paradise). Super high hurricane force Santa Ana Winds. CalFire decided to take a stand on a road right at the edge of the treeline and were able to stop this fire in it’s tracks. My fire insurance for this 100 yr. old home is literally “through the roof”. San Berardino County has just added another $157/year to my property taxes for “Fire Protection”. It’s a tax, can’t be called anything else. It was passed recently by a 3-2 vote by the County supervisors AND with NO input from the property owners. They just flat voted it in place. "Not very neighborly or legal JMHO! I have two pieces of property there. One piece is property with the cabin and also a piece of land along side. So my tax will be one each piece separately…$157 X TWO! The property tax on the vacnt land is $70 per year. The new fire tax is more than double the property tax! Welcome to Califorina
Yes you are correct…property owners pay for this. But ONLY the property tax payers who live and own places there. ALL property tax payers don’t pay for this protection :).
Bob…IF I am out of line here, delete my post :). I’m just stating facts , not political at all. Might help to inform folks who don’t live in these areas. I have always wondered why people continue to rebuild in hurricane areas…over and over again. Hurricanes occur EVERY year. Wildfires won’t be back to burn an already burned-out area.
John Caughey said:
Ray,
Having survived the Laguna Canyon Mudslides, I know you want that scrub brush holding the hills together.
I imagine rebuilding a home is cheaper than trying to rebuild the hill… there are no easy answers as we adjust to the new climate.
I moved out of the canyon…
Our area doesn’t have that issue. There are no steep slopes. The brush isn’t holding anything together, and the area that needs to be cleared is mostly flat.
Watching our Daughter and Hubby go through the throes of “do we re-build or not” has opened my eyes to all the pragmatic and emotional issues that accompany their loss and the grief that follows. Is the decision about a house or home? Will the neighbors rebuild or bail? Knowing that Fire Insurance tends to be inadequate in Remote/Rural areas, can we afford to re-build? How serious were we earlier about moving in to town? But that was our home for 22 years! And it just keeps going on and on.
Bill Gebhardt, downwind from the Camp fire, and whose long-term household jumped from two to six
I have always wondered why people continue to rebuild in hurricane areas…over and over again. Hurricanes occur EVERY year. Wildfires won’t be back to burn an already burned-out area.
Why assume that the wildfire won’t come back in a few years? Just how long does it take for brush to grow and get tinder dry in a drought?
Similarly, Hurricane’s may happen every year, but they don’t follow the same path. Here in Florida where I am typing this, Charlie came through in 2003 and made a mess, and we got the fringes of Irma last summer. It did a lot of damage but our home was untouched. In fact, we have Cat-5 wind protection windows so I wouldn’t expect damage - but the island becomes uninhabitable when the flood surge takes out the roads and utilities!
There was a good comment from a fire expert on NPR this afternoon as I was driving along. 200 years ago the centers of cities and towns regularly burned down, just as the rural towns did. The building codes were changed and now most downtown buildings are fire-proof. He also pointed out that ylou might fire-proof your home, but if the one next door is not built similarly, yours will probably burn with that other one.
However, after a fire or flood, my understanding is that the local residents pressure the state/county politicians and prevent draconian building codes, so people still build homes that may burn or flood. Yes, they might want to go “home” to where their friends live(d) but it doesn’t make much sense in the long term.
Here in Marin County, the smoke is horrid. No fire danger at this time, but rather terrible smoke.
Michael Moradzadeh said:
Here in Marin County, the smoke is horrid. No fire danger at this time, but rather terrible smoke
According to news reports here in the Bay Area, the air quality these past few days is the worst in recorded history for this area, and currently also the worst in the entire world. Most schools have been closed, people are wearing special masks if they can find them, and even the Big Game between Stanford and Cal has been postponed. While my heart goes out to those who have been burned out or to families who have lost loved ones, and their losses do not even remotely compare to our pain, this is the second year in a row we have faced more than the usual onslaught of smoke from fires that are nowhere near us. An air quality index (AQI) above 100 is cause for concern among particularly sensitive people. As of today at 5:39 pm Pacific time, the AQI for Martinez is 265, which is considered an emergency condition for the entire population, and it has been as high as 365 today. Pretty much all of the Bay Area is seeing these numbers now, have been seeing them for a week or more, and there is no expected relief in the weather forecast for several more.
We are 10 miles west of Paradise and about 18 miles north of the center of the fire. Visibility today, (8 days after fire started) at 2:pm in the middle of Chico less than 1 mile. Here is a pic taken a week ago, (Day 2).
The pic (all 800 x 533, 176kb) wouldn’t stick, so here is the link:
http://largescalecentral.com/filesharing/file/view/10486/camp-fire-jpg
Bill Gebhardt
Did you know that the pollution from wildfire counts againts us reaching our air quality attainment goals both state and federal just as vehicle or factory emissions?
Todd Brody said:
Did you know that the pollution from wildfire counts againts us reaching our air quality attainment goals both state and federal just as vehicle or factory emissions?
Not to mention the scores of active volcanoes, all around the world doing the same thing, for thousands of years.
Ken Brunt said:
Todd Brody said:
Did you know that the pollution from wildfire counts againts us reaching our air quality attainment goals both state and federal just as vehicle or factory emissions?
Not to mention the scores of active volcanoes, all around the world doing the same thing, for thousands of years.
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…and people smoking and driving cars and having barbecues…cattle breaking wind…and people doing the same…(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)
We’re starting to walk the line here about complaining about government. Please stop.
Let’s go back to trains!