I have successfully gotten away with (don’t make it a habit, but have gotten away with it) using a newer (2 years old) Crest Elite with the most recent but one iteration of the 27 mHz Train Engineer controller for both USA GP-9s and several Bachmann products including a first generation Shay and a Spectrum 4-4-0. You mileage might vary.
SteveF
I have had no problems with any loco’s using the train engineer or linear and the 13amp power pack. Even my new 22892 mallet is fine on it and it has mts chips…
Daniel-
Your example may be the one I am looking for.
Question: Is your 13 amp power pack the “Crest # 55465 Switching Power Pack” with the option of 13 amps at 22 volts or 20 amps at 13.8 volts DC?
Thanks,
Wendell
I too have the Elite which is 22.5 volts at 13 amps and the 27mhz trackside which I keep set to linear.
Your motors will be fine with the PWC output. Sound systems may go crazy though, no damage, just act funny. Lighting will come on earlier. Slow speed performance will be enhanced. Many new LGB locos come with built in DCC decoders (they call it MTS), these locos might act funny if not set for analog only operation.
On the DCC question, I will comment inline:
Matthew (OV) said:Greg Elmassian said:
DCC is basically square wave AC, not DC, with basically a modulated frequency. The modulation in frequency is the data. Scroll down this page to see a DCC waveform http://www.wig-wag-trains.com/AHD/AHD_RRampMeter%99_Product-Page.htmRegards, Greg
Are you sure about that?YES!
I know in DCC that waveform (the one on the site your link goes to) works (which is what that site’s mostly about.)
Not only works, but the point was that it is AC, it has both positive and negative components, look at the link.
DC is always between 0 and positive or 0 and negative, it’s Current never Alternates… (Alternating Current - AC)
I made that point because someone said DCC was DC…I was always under the impression, though, that PWC was exactly half of that waveform …
sort of similar, if you cut half of the DCC signal, it LOOKS SIMILAR, but is completely DIFFERENT in how it works, the modulation in DCC is decoded to data, a pulse width modulated DC signal is just narrower or wider pulses that make the motor go faster or slower… DCC is digital data encoded in an AC power supply, it surely does more than change the motor speed.
everything ABOVE the zero line for one direction, and everything BELOW the line for the other
Execpt in DCC you ALWAYS have the postive and negative pulses, in PWC they are either postive or negative… if you put a DC loco on the DCC track, it sees it as AC and just buzzes…
… with the modulation being a controlled interval of “on time” for the half wave. That was also how their “linear” output worked; they put a capacitance circuit in the PWC line that “held onto” the on time for long enough that to the equipment it looked like linear DC… if you did this with a waveform that was as equally above the line as below, you’d have relative zero, and wouldn’t go anyplace… 0 -1 +1 =0.
Along those lines, with a DC motor, if you fed it the waveform in that picture, wouldn’t you have just as much backward direction power as you would forward, causing a buzzing sound, but not much motion?
Again, no motion at all… heat though!
Since a PWC power supply is designed to run decoderless locomotives (i.e. motors more or less directly connected to the track) there’s nothing aboard to sor…
The big difference is that PWC is just a modulation technique to change the speed of a motor, and using full voltage in modulated pulses has benefits in torque and slow speed starting…
DCC is Digital Command Control, the modulation is data, like that which flows over the Internet, which can be used for many purposes, but without a decoder, is not intended to run anything. Now you could rectify a DCC signal, and pick a data pattern that could run a locomotive, and this has been done to allow a kind of analog capability to run ordinary DC locos on a DCC track, of course only one loco…
I admit that I could be completely out to lunch here … so if I’ve always misunderstood how this works, don’t shoot!
Well, I’m not shooting, but you did have a bit of a meal there!
Matthew (OV)
Greetings All;
Many of you know me as markperr on other forums but up until this point, I’ve only been a lurker here as I’ve not really had anything to contribute so far. Many folks here are far more knowledgeable than I when it comes to trains, both LS and 1:1.
Now on to my reply to Greg’s question. Several years back I did an installation at a restaurant near where I live and used LGB Moguls with factory installed MTS. I also used an Aristo Ultima and a trackside t/e. The installation was an elevated one around the main dining room and the Ultima and T/E receiver were also elevated and tucked away in a corner of the loop. About six months after the installation, I received a call from the owner saying that the train had gone haywire and could I come and check it out. Sure enough, on it’s own, after accelerating it using the T/E transmitter, the Mogul would stop dead, then lurch forward, then buck then lurch forward, then stop, then take off like a bat outta you know where. I immediately assumed that it was dirty track and began doing a thorough cleaning. However, even after it was done, the same problem was happening. Removing other electronic switching devices that were attached in-line with the t/e’s output proved fruitless as well. While scratching my head, I seemed to remember in the very far back reaches of my mind, someone telling me that LGB Engines didn’t like Aristo PWC, and that the PWC/Linear switch was placed in the t/e for that express purpose, the use of non-Aristo loco’s. So I checked the t/e and it was set to PWC. I switched it to linear and all problems disappeared instantly. There seemed to be no permanent damage to the Mogul, as it is still running today. I can only assume that one of the employees must have accidentally switched the t/e while cleaning/dusting.
Hope this anecdote helps.
Mark
I’ve used the Ultima and T/E system for about 8 years and have not had any trouble. I run Aristo, Bachmann, USA and one older LGB porter on pulse width without any problems. I have countless hours of run time on them all. But, none of my engines have DCC.
Jon.
Daniel-
Your example may be the one I am looking for.
Question: Is your 13 amp power pack the “Crest # 55465 Switching Power Pack” with the option of 13 amps at 22 volts or 20 amps at 13.8 volts DC?
Thanks,
Wendell
Yep thats the one! As i have said i have had no problems with my new mallet with decoders in sixth months…
Yep, it just SOME DCC/MTS equipped locos, and often time, given 2 identical locos, one runs fine on PWC and the other goes nuts.
Obviously, the older LGB locos do not have decoders.
LGB has put out a memo about this, quoted in another forum, think it was MLS.
Regards, Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
Yep, it just SOME DCC/MTS equipped locos, and often time, given 2 identical locos, one runs fine on PWC and the other goes nuts.Obviously, the older LGB locos do not have decoders.
LGB has put out a memo about this, quoted in another forum, think it was MLS.
Regards, Greg
http://www.lgboa.com/content/know_database/d_faq_zeigen.asp?lang=E&faqid=1025
There have been numerous mentions of “recommended procedure with onboard MTS-decoders”; the long and the short of which is: remove entirely and replace with something else. 
:D.
"There have been numerous mentions of “recommended procedure with onboard MTS-decoders”; the long and the short of which is: remove entirely and replace with something else. "
I’ve run LGB with MTS for a few years now and haven’t had any problems with it.
Can’t understand changing something that works fine right out of the box!
John,
I believe Hans is referring to MTS dcc decoder equipped locos being used with non LGB MTS power. More specifically AC pwm controllers.
Some MTS equipped locos can handle pwm on the track, some cannot.
Caveat Emptor.
You will know when the little door opens and all the smoke comes out.
One tends to wonder aloud, sometimes, whether that had anything to do with the reversal of the ideology to have this stuff factory installed.
John Joseph Sauer said:
"There have been numerous mentions of "recommended procedure with onboard MTS-decoders"; the long and the short of which is: remove entirely and replace with something else. "I’ve run LGB with MTS for a few years now and haven’t had any problems with it.
Can’t understand changing something that works fine right out of the box!
As with everything in life, it depends what your expectations and requirements are. 
If it fits your requirements, fine.
There are plenty of other large scalers who may buy a LGB engine, strip all the good stuff and install what suits their requirements. In the process they usually gain “a few” extra functions, get running characteristics which can be adjusted to work like the prototype, set up the lights on electrics or diesels to work like the proto - including such “interesting features” as Swiss engine light patterns or prototypical headlights ditchlight on NA diesels.
Not to mention that installing two decoders in a dual powered engine has been redundant for many years - except with LGB.
As mentioned, it’s all about expectations and requirements. 
I guess LGB meets my expectations and requirments
You stay with it , John , it’s good stuff . I have a house full of it ,and get a great deal of pleasure out of it .
I fail to see how constant drip , drip , knocking of a product gives enjoyment to modelling .
There is a little used , good mannered philosophy to follow . If you don’t like a product , keep your mouth shut . Let those who do like it enjoy it . What is it that gets into people ?
Promote your own pet thing , but not fer crissake at the expense of others’ enjoyment .
Mike
Didn’t mean to stir up trouble. I just like the “plug and play” nature of LGB products. I’m not one who likes to “tinker” with electronics-I have a tendency to blow things up when I attempt tampering with something that already works!
John , you understand I wasn’t criticising you ,on the contrary , you have been forced into making a statement defending you free choice of product .Why ? Because there has been a bit too much anti LGB of late , and it ought to stop .
I use LGB and it has its faults like anything else . I also used other stuff and got shut of it because it was not to my liking . I have no intention of spoiling the fun that the many owners of this product get by naming it and shaming it .
I expect others to play the same game . If you don’t like a product , by all means say so --once is enough .
There is positive promotion and negative ,
Positive — With r/c , you don’t need to clean the track .
Negative --With rail feed you need to keep cleaning the track to make it work
Both of these statements are in favour of r/c .Which do you all think is the more positive
And , don’t forget , knock some part of the hobby and the resulting splash stains everything .
I use r/c as the example because I happen to use track power and r/c , so have no axe to grind .
Same with LGB , I use it a lot , and I use other stuff too .
Certain people here take every oppurtunty to knock the stuff , and should know better .
If you carry on , you will look more selfish than you already do . You are also spoiling others enjoyment of a perfectly good product . I suggest you pack it in ,it does none of us any good to overly criticise any part of our hobby . Stick to constructive comments about how to fix known problems , don’t knock for knocking’s sake . Or to make yourself look smart
Mike M
Understood Mike!
I’ve noticed that some folks have preferences as well as agendas!
I run lots of different manufacturer’s products but I’ve always had the best luck with LGB. Not really a statement of preference -just a fact!
A small clarification:
Strictly by the “A picture says more than a thousand words” method. Yes, the above also show the boxes my LGB equipment came in. No, I would never buy LGB-MTS components, other than to test something and sell it again when done. 
True, I’m very selective in what I buy, makes the money go a little bit farther. One of those silly habits I aquired. PS the BRAWA box is too large to fit on the shelves.