Large Scale Central

Dexter-Turbine Windmill Project

Ken Brunt said:

David Marconi,FOGCH said:

With that info I’d enjoy getting over to see it with ya Ken. good excuse for breakfast, maybe get Rooster to meet with us though you can’t get him to leave his coop. Holler if you’d like. Maybe Cliff can drive there too. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Sounds like a plan. Maybe sometime after this supposed blizzard we’re getting. And make it during the week, so Rooster has to work…(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

RONFL Works for me, him not so much(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Maybe the above pic will help you decide Forrest I got it from:

http://rr-fallenflags.org/

Or about the 23rd listed railroad on their misc.V railroads here:

http://rr-fallenflags.org/misc-v/misc-v.html

(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Rooster ’ said:

David Marconi,FOGCH said:

With that info I’d enjoy getting over to see it with ya Ken. good excuse for breakfast, maybe get Rooster to meet with us though you can’t get him to leave his coop. Holler if you’d like. Maybe Cliff can drive there too. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

I’ll swing by and pick you guys up on my way to Cliffs house just so I can choke him for getting me sucked into this !

You’re just tired of the same old feed and want to go to breakfast. But we’ll include you

Alan Lott said:

Well, Cliff, your project has certainly aroused great interest here. It is always fascinating to read about unusual structures on railroads; I guess you will have your work cut out building this turbine. An ideal project for the winter period when many outdoor railroads are mothballed or covered in snow for sure and your progress with its construction will be eagerly watched.

I must look out for popcorn in the superstore, I guess mine sell it. (https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Thanks Alan, and yes I will have my work cut out for me! But it could have been MUCH worse. Thanks to my dear wife’s wise intervention (“You want to pay WHAT to ship that thing out for just one stupid conference?!?”), the entire base, and much of the superstructure, was remodeled for lasering. This critical decision led to not only the flattenable tower, but also greatly reduced wood part count, a more accurate and speedy build, and better survivability in the elements when I plant it in the back yard. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-innocent.gif)

And you bet, this is my big winter project (though I hope to get the bulk of it done in December). It’ll be a breeze… (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-foot-in-mouth.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cry.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-frown.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

David Marconi,FOGCH said:

Rooster ’ said:

David Marconi,FOGCH said:

With that info I’d enjoy getting over to see it with ya Ken. good excuse for breakfast, maybe get Rooster to meet with us though you can’t get him to leave his coop. Holler if you’d like. Maybe Cliff can drive there too. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

I’ll swing by and pick you guys up on my way to Cliffs house just so I can choke him for getting me sucked into this !

You’re just tired of the same old feed and want to go to breakfast. But we’ll include you

BTW, these windmills are on the property of a business that makes cool “architectural” fans, and the gentleman in charge is Jay McGinnis. From what I gather in bast emailing with him, Jay’s working there during the week, and it’s easier to see his windmills then. But he also seems interested to show what he’s built. Here’s his contact info:

https://www.architecturalfans.com/contact-woolen-mill/

If you get there before I do, tell him Cliff sent you! (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

Mark Hadler said:

Cliff, found this on newspapers.com -

Yerington Times_May 30, 1875_Turbine Dexter Windmill Company ad from SF

Thanks Mark, yes indeed, I have that article, and it’s a pivotal one! It describes that separation between the Dexter and the new Turbine windmill companies.

I love newspapers.com, I paid for a 6-month gig from them, just for this project. And I’m glad I did!

Here’s a related rabbit I’m chasing, and it’s been a wild hare. For a railroad use, Southwick consistently advertised that his windmill+tank would be perfect for railroads, and even illustrated it in that use (this is a detail from the ad in my first post).

I had thought that this was the original use of the Mound House windmill. But no; though it’s beside the tracks, and elevated enough for a tender-filling spout to be present, such a spout was never installed there. This is because it was quickly discovered that the Mound House water was highly corrosive, and the loco boiler tubes would have been quickly damaged. So, the V&T did not use this tower for train watering.

I was bummed to learn that. But just because, I’ve wondered if this windmill was ever used in a train-watering capacity. After long plowing through newpapers.com and other resources, the only instance I’ve seen of a railroad buying this windmill is just south of Philadelphia, in Paschalville, on the short-lived Philadelphia, Wilmington and Baltimore RR. Only a library seems to bear the name of Paschalville, since all appears to be absorbed into Philly suburbia.

I’ve written to the library, and basically if they have archival photos of the windmill there, I’ll have to go up and look. And that might happen if and when I retire.

That’s all I got on the history side of a RR application. On the modeling side, I couldn’t help myself from attempting a 1:24 version last summer. I’ll try to resurrect that model and show a pic or two.

But if any of you know of a Turbine or Dexter Windmill being used for railroad use, please let me know!!

A number of Turbine Windmills were installed in New Jersey, by the way.

===>Cliffy

Here’s my model of the railroad version, complete with the tall / big wood tower that it would have cost $150 extra to ship back and forth on Southwest (plus the cost of the crate). The design is totally conjectural; it forces a spout onto the Mound House structure, which wouldn’t have happened. Tank is way too high, the water force would have blasted the spout away from the tender. But, sometimes fantasy is funner, and physics and history just need to play ball. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)

I guess you need a reducing valve at the spout elbow. (https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

So by saying you want this functional, does that mean actually pumping water to fill the tank? Or just adjusting the various vane angles and spinning in the wind?

Are you planning a scale well being drilled to match? :slight_smile:

[edited to correct typo]

David Marconi,FOGCH said:

Maybe the above pic will help you decide Forrest I got it from:

The yellow with initially brown then green trim was from the 1910, 1930, to the end era; which is the correct era for 4-6-0 #26 that Bachmann put in an 1870s livery for this set. And the 2 cars in the set came in yellow with green trim. Instead of correcting the locomotive’s livery I am ‘correcting’ the cars, backdating their livery to match the anachronistic locomotive livery’s era.

The set was something of a temporal goulash, a 1910 locomotive in 1870s livery pulling cars in 1930s livery.

Forrest, The pic is representative of the appearance of the roof as seen in direct sun. The roof is painted black and runs to white with the sun.

As asked by you earlier :

Hey Cliff, if I might go off on a V&T tangent momentarily;

the right side of those images brings up V&T question which I’ve not yet found the answer to. Knowing that B&W photography records reflectance of surfaces as much as, and sometimes more than, the tones of hues, can it be inferred that the roofs of those 2 passenger cars are a lighter hue than black?

Maybe I misunderstood your question silly me

Jim Rowson said:

So by saying you want this functional, does that mean actually pumping water to fill the tank? Or just adjusting the various vane angles and spinning in the wind?

Are you planning a scale well being drilled to match? :slight_smile:

[edited to correct typo]

Jim, mainly just spinning, hopefully with at least manually-operable shutters. Whether I can make them self-regulating is improbable, but I’ll give it a whack.

There will also be the pump drive shaft, which will have a 2:1 pulley / belt drive off the rotor shaft. This is for later experimentation with, say, a small enclosed motor acting as a generator (just for grins…)

Yesterday I did the cedar ripping, and today was measuring, cutting, sometimes notching, and sanding.

I should be getting the brown acrylic in a day or two, so laser-cutting will hopefully start next weekend.

You are so organized and methodical and plan-first-build-to-plan that I am jealous. I just wing it…

Thanks Jim, very kind of you to say.

But you’re a lot quicker than I am though, haha!

I just got the supply of K&S brass stock, and wanted to pass on the place I got it from:

FDJTool

The sell the brass pieces singly (vs. packs), but their prices seemed pretty good. Several items I couldn’t find on Amazon at all, but they had it.

Also, check out their tools page for grins. Lotsa different stuff, since they cater to jewelry makers.

Jim Rowson said:

You are so organized and methodical and plan-first-build-to-plan that I am jealous. I just wing it…

Me to Jim …Cliff clearly has issues !

My wife Linda and I got up to see the recreated turbine windmill today, there in southeastern PA. The owner, Jay McGinnis, runs a business that makes or restores period ceiling fans & their line shafts. His house has plenty of them, along with a nice collection of stationary engine models. Here’s Jay and Linda in his sun room. It’s 3 stories, with fans at each level!

In is porch room he has a couple models (1:12?) of his big windmills on the property, made by a local Amish young man.

Here’s his “horizontal” windmill, which we’d come to see. “Horizontal” is the generic term for wind-driven wheels laid horizontally (and therefore having a vertical axis), including Southwick’s Turbine, which this is an adaptation of.

Unfortunately, the power to the mill wasn’t working, and his motorized shutters wouldn’t open. Jay was quite surprised and annoyed, saying the (after much effort) something must have chewed up a cable. Anyway, he’ll get it working in a few days. It was great to see it though, nonetheless.

So we moved on to the big’un, the 1900 Aermotor. Has 16’ dia. blades, and there’s only one other one in existence. The wood tower is new, but all the working parts and steel tower inside are all original. He bought it as an unopened kit, that had never been put together!

When we went inside, he cranked a cable making the tail turn perpendicular to the fan, and all the machinery started working. Really cool to see (and hear) that! His web site has lots of pics of the construction of this mill.

If any of y’all want to go, just drop him a line (or have me do it) to request a visit and make sure his turbine’s working. And if the timing works out, I’d like to tag along and see it work myself.

Hollywood and I were making the trip up to see it tomorrow. We originally planned for today, but the wife needed my car, so we had a change in plans. I’m meeting him at the Delta Family restaurant. Then we’ll scoot on over and take a look/see.