Large Scale Central

DECEMBER 7TH 1941

Given that the U.S. was ‘privy’ to all Japanese secrets from the mid-1930s onwards, does one really expect an individual to actually believe no prior knowledge of the 1941 attack on Pearl Harbour? It was ‘fortunate’ in that on December 6th less than 15% of the American population favoured becoming involved in the ‘European’ war. On December 7th, the entire population favoured entering the war. Up until December 7th, America was ‘breaching’ neutrality guidelines as regards their equipment support for the allied army. Roosevelt was under extreme pressure from Winston Churchill to do his part in the war.

Look to Britain. Apart from an eight month period in 1943, the British were privy to all German communication courtesy of them breaking the Enigma code. Prior 1943 the Enigma machine was a three spool cipher machine which the Germans believed unable to crack. In 1943 the Germans designed the four-spool cipher with billions more combinations. A few months later the British also cracked this cipher. Basically, the British knew for the duration of the war most, if not all German planning, so could hardly not be aware of atrocities committed during the war nor be suprised by any German military action.

Hark back to the S.S. Lousitania in 1915. It was well known that American flagged ‘neutral’ passenger ships were transporting military equipment to Britain in contravention of neutrality agreements. The then lord of the Admiralty (the same Winston Churchill from memory) apparently ignored to inform the captain of the Lousitania of German U-boat activity close to shore. The result was a loss of around 1500 lives. Similarly, America was under extreme pressure to enter the ‘Great War’ but remained neutral until 1917.

In the world of politics there are no real secrets, only suppression of the truth. History in retrospect is generally kind to colonising super-powers. Look to the sinking of the American warship in San Salvador’ in around 1905. Approximately 15 American sailors were killed when the warship ‘peacefully’ at anchor in the harbour was rocked by an explosion. The U.S. declared war on Spain and within minutes had not only taken the carribean but the Phillipines as well. History would have us believe that this was an act of war by an unfriendly government and yet evidence suggests the explosion onboard the warship was linked more closely to home. Remember, that up until the late 1890s, America was more focussed internally, but with the rise of ‘teddy bear’ Roosevelt, America became a colonising super power.

Somebody pass me the popcorn. This is gonna get interesting.

Don’tcha love a conspiracy theory? :smiley:

Steve pass the popcorn, no way Im gonna attempt to educate some of the conspiracy stuff put forth. Whats the point? You can lead a horse to water, but you cant teach him calculus.

Beside when Bob wakes up tommorow and reads it, it lock city and Thzirty Dayz in ze cooler. Suffice to say I agree with Richard and Mik.

Let’s see if I’ve got this right. America lured Japan into war by cutting off their raw materials. We know their codes from way before the war and kept it all quiet.

The British knew everything the Germans were planning, and it still took them six years and every bomb and bullet the Americans could send there way to stop 'em. Boy those Germans were good!

Oh, and the Holocaust never happened and the world is flat and will end in just a couple of weeks.

Glad that’s all cleared up.

So much for that!

I’m sorry I replied to this. John only asked a legitimate question to which he deserved a straight answer without embellishments.

I want to apologize to Bob for the way this has turned and to John as well. I’m locking myself out of any further comment on this thread before it gets out of hand.

Keep railroading guys you’re a swell bunch. Please don’t let a simple bit of history create a gulf that can’t be closed.

Richard Smith said:
So much for that!

I’m sorry I replied to this. John only asked a legitimate question to which he deserved a straight answer without embellishments.

I want to apologize to Bob for the way this has turned and to John as well. I’m locking myself out of any further comment on this thread before it gets out of hand.

Keep railroading guys you’re a swell bunch. Please don’t let a simple bit of history create a gulf that can’t be closed.


Nicely done, Richard!

We could always discuss Pearl Harbor, Conspiracy theories AND trains… Nevada County Narrow gauge #9 was shipped to Pearl (along with SP#20’s tender), converted to an 0-8-0 for yard service… and she just plain disappeared after the war… presumed scrapped, but there’s no record… if she wasn’t cut up then where’d she go?

(http://www.trainweb.org/foothill/images/ncng9.jpg)

Oh and the boxcars in the other pic are standard military export cars, same as those used on the White Pass during the war. There’s supposed to be still a couple existent in Hawaii.

So thank you to everybody who offered me answers. It is said that when the student is ready the teacher appears, and I got several lessons from several different viewpoints, all very much appreciated, especially those scholars among you who took a long time to write long and thoughtful and knowledgeable replies, and to Victor and Dick for the comic relief.

The takeaways? For me they were that, yup, nothing much seems to change from generation to generation. That there are some guys here who know and care a lot about this stuff, and also, that there will always be opposing opinions and theories. Sometimes we just have to weave through it all, take the best we can from any debate that arises and evaluate it according to our own wisdom.

Finally, it seems to me the tide of human affairs here as elsewhere, is often governed by the law of unintended consequences. :rolleyes: As Bobbie Burns, wrote, “The best laid schemes o’ Mice an’ Men gang aft agley.”

I’m glad Bob just let this roll along after all. I don’t think anyone was hurt by it. Again, to all of you, my sincere thanks! :slight_smile: