Well, I just Googled “White toner printer” and got an OKI site. I guess they used to be the old Okidata pin printers.
I don’t know of any printer currently manufactured that can do white on clear. You can get that from Stan, who has an old Alps printer. He can also do things like shiny gold ink on clear decal, too. That’s what I did for the lettering on my passenger cars.
Ray Dunakin said:
I don’t know of any printer currently manufactured that can do white on clear. You can get that from Stan, who has an old Alps printer. He can also do things like shiny gold ink on clear decal, too. That’s what I did for the lettering on my passenger cars.
I’ve been experimenting with a Brother P-touch label printer. It thermal prints white on clear polyester tape. The challenge is getting the edges of the tape to dissapear and softening the tape to go over uneven surfaces. So far I’ve had a lttle luck dabbing with acetone but its hard not to strip the surrounding paint. The labels are made to be used outside and are quite thick. I’ve been thinking of soaking the label in acetone before applying. Also, maybe Chinese knock off labels are not as thick?
I’ve been using the Ptouch for years (have 4 of them ha ha!)… it does make some nice looking labels, but I have the same concerns hiding the edges too.
Greg
Lou Luczu said:
Well, I just Googled “White toner printer” and got an OKI site. I guess they used to be the old Okidata pin printers.
http://www.digitalheatfx.com/printers.html
…and the cost of the toner (white) is $454 a pop!!
The posts on here may be of interest if you can pick up a 2nd hand printer…particularly the last but one on the page.
http://www.diecastrestoration.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1867#sthash.0pnMoD2k.dpbs
Greg Elmassian said:
I’ve been using the Ptouch for years (have 4 of them ha ha!)… it does make some nice looking labels, but I have the same concerns hiding the edges too.
Greg
So Greg have you ever tried the Chinese ptouch compatible stock?
I have been using water silde decals and vinyl for years on cars and for my buildings. Two things to note: The proper choice of ink is critical. Due to fading and water smearing dye inks such as HP, Brother and other cheaper printers will result in disappointing results. A pigment based ink should be used. It is standard for all Epson Work Force and higher end printers. cartridges loaded with pigment inks can be purchased from many sites on line for almost any printer. Epson also sells white pigment ink for their commercial printers. I puchased a cartridge and used it to fill a blank cartridge from an online source. Using an old outdated printer, I placed it in the “black” position and print black and white where the "black print is now white. and “white” is clear. If I desire other colors, I just reprint on another printer with the colors. This technique works real well for white on clear decals for rolling stock or the multiple passes for grafitti.
Before I found the white in for my workforce printer, I used ptouch and found I could soften the edges by CAREFULLY dabbing on MEK and smoothing with a micro painters pallet knife. Lotsa practice is needed so as not to get the MEK on the print and not to make rough edges.
Worked but I found it fustrating as I would often ruin the label and have to start over.
thomas prevost said:
I have been using water silde decals and vinyl for years on cars and for my buildings. Two things to note: The proper choice of ink is critical. Due to fading and water smearing dye inks such as HP, Brother and other cheaper printers will result in disappointing results. A pigment based ink should be used. It is standard for all Epson Work Force and higher end printers. cartridges loaded with pigment inks can be purchased from many sites on line for almost any printer. Epson also sells white pigment ink for their commercial printers. I puchased a cartridge and used it to fill a blank cartridge from an online source. Using an old outdated printer, I placed it in the “black” position and print black and white where the "black print is now white. and “white” is clear. If I desire other colors, I just reprint on another printer with the colors. This technique works real well for white on clear decals for rolling stock or the multiple passes for grafitti.
Very clever Thomas. This “blank cartridge” you found, it had never been filled before? I thought about using an empty black cart and filling with white (pigment) rubber stamp ink but I would imagine is would take quite awhite to flush the remaining black out.
Dan, White rubber stamp in will not work. Particles too large to go through printhead nossles and inkjet depends upon a voltile medium to evaporate propelling the ink onto the paper.
White ink is used in commercial ink jet printing Examples are Work Force Pro Wide with printers OKidata pro series, Kodak commercial printers etc. I get my ink by purchasing a cartridge for the Epson 8000 series. and loading it into blank cartridges for my Epson printer. print shops buy the ink in bulk and will often sell you a small amount. An Ebayreseller in Montreal Canada will fill cetain cartridges with white ink. I have not used them as they appear a little hokie
You can purchase empty unloaded cartridges for any number of suppliers on Ebay. It is also a good source for pigmented inks. or replacemnt cartridges for your existing printer.
An alternative to decal is to use die cut vinyl. Many who are into scrapbooking own a Shilhouette cutter. Thus checking around you or your significant other may know someone who has one. I purchased one used on on Ebay for $50.00. Transfer vinyl that has its own adheisve can be purchased. Using this method the lettering or art work is cutinot the micro thin vinyl and transferred to the car building or like. The material is totally weather resisitant. I purchased the roll material from US Cutter. Or it can be purchased from Texas Craft (supplier of Papilo water slide material. The cost is about equivalent to decal when you consider the cost of ink. The vinyl can be purchased in white and any color you would ever want. This is the same vinyl used for outdoor banners and campaign posters.
For any of the techniques I have described there are Youtube videos on how to use them.
thomas prevost said:
I have been using water silde decals and vinyl for years on cars and for my buildings. Two things to note: The proper choice of ink is critical. Due to fading and water smearing dye inks such as HP, Brother and other cheaper printers will result in disappointing results. A pigment based ink should be used. It is standard for all Epson Work Force and higher end printers. cartridges loaded with pigment inks can be purchased from many sites on line for almost any printer. Epson also sells white pigment ink for their commercial printers. I puchased a cartridge and used it to fill a blank cartridge from an online source. Using an old outdated printer, I placed it in the “black” position and print black and white where the "black print is now white. and “white” is clear. If I desire other colors, I just reprint on another printer with the colors. This technique works real well for white on clear decals for rolling stock or the multiple passes for grafitti.
Interesting process, and one that I would have never thought of. How does this white ink stand up to the UV compared with the white ink from the ALPS printers?
Craig,
as good if not better, probably the same pigment from the same manufacturer.
WE are all familiar with the fading of the dye based inkjets HP Brother and cheap Epsons. Dyes are organic and fade easily. Epsons Workforce printers and Most high end printers use pigmented inks. These are the same materials used in laser printers and paints. They last for years. The difference is they are not as forgiving as dye inks and tend to be harsher in photographic prints. This should not be a problem for this intended use. longevity is the important parameter. Where you see these inks used in in the custom tee shirt shops in toursit areas. no fade even with harsh detergents.
Probably providing more info than requested.
I’ve been watching the white toner in a laser printer… it has been done, but they tell you to use a brand new printer that has never had black toner in it.
Greg
Greg,
There are two patents on white toners I think Terri has gone back to Inda and Al Costa packages the Oki. He will sell bullk toner for refilling any cartridge ($450). But as you say they have to ultra clean. What we did was to fill a used cartridge with only about 10% after a good cleaning and ran sheets until it was white. Then filled it for use. Not real happy with his toner as it is an off white and requires high fusion temp which can melt the decal substrate. AS you can tell I am an ex Kodaker that did research in the copier division. I just carried the interest to trains.
If you have the bucks Eco Inks and sublimination inks are available that print white but the printers are in $8,000-10,000 range. Print shops often have these and may be willing to print your artwork for you
Hi all
Before anyone runs out to buy a vinyl cutter here are some things to consider:
There are limits to the size and typefaces that are useable
3/8 inch high letters are the smallest practical size due to problems removing
the unwanted portion (called weeding)Anytthing smaller is very difficult and too easy to ruin.
Any font with serifs also presents a problem as the little points on the letters tend to tear off during weeding.
half inch letters seem to be the limit here, ( that has been my experience and success limits)
also vinyl lettering does NOT lay flat on irregular surfaces like louvers or door edges on locomotives.
I have tried heat guns to soften the vinyl and extremes of pressure to get them flat, but after an hour or so they lift and
span any gaps or depressions. I have had some success with “wooden sheathed” cars.
“your mileage may vary”
Bill
Sounds like pigment ink will definitely give you better results than a dye based ink. However, it looks like printers that use pigment ink are more expensive machines ($$). I’m using a Canon Pixma inkjet. From what I understand, Canon’s black ink is pigment based, but the color is dye (Canon Chromalife 100+ ink).
Unless I only print black decals, I think a liberal coating of Painter’s Touch UV or Krylon UV spray might help with longevity.
-Kevin.
My color signs that were printed by an HP Inkjet did not survive for very long. I sprayed them with several coats of Krylon UV, but they were faded in less than a year.
The reasonable printers that would print white are few and far between now. The inks are even harder to find. The few Decal makers that still have them operational are an even rarer breed.
Kevin,
Pigment inks, dye or sublimination inks can be purchased for almost any printer. A set of 4 bottles of refill ink is $15.99 about 3 reloads. Empty cartridges are $4.99 each. from either Refillbay.com or compandsave.com., If you go to Ebay and type in inkjet refill you will get hundreds of hits. These are almost all resellers selling Chinese inks from the same manufacturer. All of the Japanese and Korean printers use inks and cartridges manufactured by these plants. HP and Kodak commercial are probably the only ones manufacturing their own inks.
Andrew you are correct. No new production runs for the Alpha printer. What is on the market is old stock or a Malaysian firm using old cartridges/tape with commerical printing ink.