Aaaargh! I think it’s my fault! Every time I get around to purchasing something, the company goes TU (well, not every time, but this isn’t the first time.)
So I’ve sent off an order for a second base station, which may become a trailing car receiver. (Yes, Fred, battery.)
As usual, we already have disagreement in our group, which causes any manufacturer to tremble at the thought of trying to please everyone.
Basically there are two groups that both want R/C battery power, for one reason or another. The BIG difference between the groups is that…
One is really only interested in just running trains, roundy-roundy, for viewing pleasure without the need of major, and continuous track cleaning or electrical problems. So they would be fine with any hand-held throttle of any type, even joy-sticks, flat screens, or cell telephones. They probably would like to throw switches with it too, so that they could remain sitting while enjoying a bheer or four. In other words, they want all the bells, lights and whistles, and the E-smoke thrown in too.
The other group is looking for a good R/C battery, hand held throttle that is easily controlled without looking at it; held in one hand, and as small as possible…buttons are preferred. The main interest is trouble free operation of their locomotive, and train in a most prototypical manner…probably good sound is the most desired add-on.
The systems that still exist seem, in a lot of cases, to be directed at the first group, and give the impression that they were never designed to please the growing group dedicated to operations…
The original RCS pocket sized throttle had some of the qualities most enjoy. The Joystick aeroplane controls were not very popular with many. The original Aristo 27Mh throttle was a bit larger than the RCS, but very acceptable.
So where do we go from here…or will someone with money to invest in a rather small market, try to buy out Lewis Polk ?
Or are we stuck with the new high tech bunch wanting everyone to need a throttle/ telephone/camera/computer, combination in their pocket 24 hours a day, when all the average person wants is to operate a locomotive, and enjoy the otherwise simple and enjoyable hobby of Model Railroading ???
I don’t see disagreement at all, just a couple of different ways people use whats available.
I’m pretty sure we can all agree that it is Chris’s fault…(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-smile.gif)
I’m very sorry to hear this. I really like the Revolution r/c system.
I received the same e-mail sometime this morning and just read it. I have to say, “This really SUCKS”, but as an old Aristo Craft dealer that was dropped when they did their big change it doesn’t surprise me. I just hope that someone decides to pick up this product and continue to produce it. I have lots of good customers that have the Revolution system and love it. Me included. I guess now everyone that is still selling these units will think there a collector item and want top dollar for them. Maybe this would be a good time for Phoenix or Kadee to come out with something that will work with there systems.
Sure glad my locomotive roster isn’t every big. Bummer.
I almost made the move, with the rest of our club, to the Revolution system, but when Aristo died a few years back, I thought better of it, and stayed with Airwire. I’m glad, so far, that I did. Time will tell.
I have seen a system that was going to use touch screen control via ones smart phone. My gripe is that most all smartphones are a real PITA to see in bright daylight. So that would make using one to operate a garden railway on sunny days very unenjoyable. A very sad announcement to say the least. My friend was using it in all of his battery powered engines. Mike
Steve Featherkile said:
I almost made the move, with the rest of our club, to the Revolution system, but when Aristo died a few years back, I thought better of it, and stayed with Airwire. I’m glad, so far, that I did. Time will tell.
Same here Steve.
DCC is there, it’s established, you can use as much or little of it as you wish.
There are many wireless options from smart phones to dedicated controllers.
Battery operation has long been provided by AirWire’s products.
Large scale and battery operation is a very small part of the model railroad hobby. If you are using a technology that is not derived from HO or N scale products, then the volume is so much smaller it’s almost impossible to compete.
No one wants a more expensive solution. Why was the Revolution such a good seller? Mainly because it was cheap.
The only way we (large scale) can get good prices is sort of be part of a larger market. For example in DCC, the main parts that cost money are the microprocessor, and the software development, and the control system. Guess what, all of this is the same no matter what scale, the large scale decoders have the same basic components as the HO scale, just bigger output transistors.
Going your own way with a proprietary system for large scale only is too tough in this market. That’s why Crest also was producing an HO Revolution (which did not catch on of course).
Greg
Fred, I believe you are over thinking the Roundy Round. All one needs to do that is a power supply, rheostat and toggle switch.
The R/C, whether battery or track powered, IS more dedicated to operations. However, a roundy rounder who wishes to ring a bell or blow a whistle/horn while running cannot do so with a basic power pack.
Another point you missed is that there is all degrees of commitment to this hobby. Some folks are totally satisfied to purchase a Bachmann Ten wheeler or a Heartland Mac and a couple cars and watch them go round under the Christmas Tree. You happen to be among an elite (some might say over zealous) group of folks interested in operations. And there are all levels of happiness in between. Please lets leave how folks operate out of the discussion of the merits of a manufacturer closing it’s doors.
As for alternatives, there are several, with differing levels of cost, compatibility, and ease of operation. IMHO I hope that AirWire is up to the deluge of orders that will be coming their way, as they are the next closest thing to Revolution. And it does not take much to make an AirWire receiver work with track power. Anyone interested I will provide the circuit necessary.
I will be going back over the article(s) in GR magazine that were published in the last year or so on a low cost R/C system. I am going to review them with an electronics engineer at the office for possible beefing up and upgradability. Who knows where that may lead. There are several folks here who have poked around with Arduino and Raspberry Pi computers. They also offer relatively inexpensive options. I believe even Dave Bodnar has some interesting stuff on his web site.
i am well aware of the pain that Crest is causing by closing the doors. My club is HEAVILY INVESTED in Revolution…we are looking at a sizable chunk of change to purchase spare units (if we can get our hands on them) to carry us forward until a concensus is reached on the way forward.
My tuppence worth…
One thing also to keep in mind… technology is always changing. I got into the Revolution because it gave me leaps and bounds more flexibility than the systems I had been using (RCS and home-built systems prior to that). It gave me visual feedback in terms of speed and direction that the older systems did not, I could program many aspects of control that I couldn’t previously, and it integrated seamlessly with 3rd-party sound systems. It’s been a great system for me. Technology has not stood still, however. The current generation of DCC decoders are leaps and bounds beyond what the Revolution offers in terms of sound and prototypical motor control. I haven’t installed a Revolution in one of my locos in probably 3 years or so because I want the features the newer technology gives me. Ask me again in 7 years, and I’ll probably be using another system that has yet to be introduced for the same reasons.
I’d like to see the Revolution continue, because I think it fills an important niche in the spectrum of R/C control systems. At the same time, I look at something like BlueRail, and I think something like that is well-situated to fill the void if the Revolution does go away. (And even if it does not. Choice is good!) I also look at Airwire, and think it would be great to see someone do what they’re doing in a different spectrum; maybe 2.4gHz, maybe Bluetooth, WiFi, who knows? I’ve been at this battery R/C thing for a long time. It’s getting exponentially better as we go forward. Couple ever-improving battery technology that’s now allowing the small scalers to cut the wires to their rails, and I see this getting seriously cool seriously fast.
Later,
K
Kadee already has a system that can control a servo, just have the servo drive a potentiometer for speed control.
Perhaps they have something in the works and just needed to have a chance for lots of sales to make it profitable.
This is just a guess, I have no official knowledge!!
Kevin.
I doubt the Blue Rail system will ever be used outdoors, and for the same reasons WIFI + DCC using smart phones has not been taken up outdoors. Indoors it is extremely popular on the H0 layout at my club in Brisbane. No doubt it is becoming more popular the World over.
I know of no one using smart phones outdoors.
There is one Track powered on board Revolution at the club and a couple of stick radio controlled battery R/C locos. The rest (a dozen or so) use my stuff for battery R/C or good old fashioned track power.
Airwire in my stuff from the beginning. All the club members used it until the Revo came out. For some reason they all bailed except three of us.
Over the years the only fails (2) I’ve had was my own fault during the installation. The one thing I didn’t like about AW was the giant decoder (compared to Revo.) But I’ve dealt with it.
Now if AW goes the way of Crest, I’ll just use up my stock of AW until I’m down to one. Then I’ll give up. By then I’ll be gone anyway. 
I’m using Xbee series 1 with great success outside. Essentially networked radio control with a 300ft range. It’s a bit pricey ($17 each) but it’s a solid platform with an open protocol- plus it’s FCC certified out of the box.
My hangup is the hand-held controller. I’ve done two, each with it’s drawbacks, I’m working on a third now but it’s still on the drawing board. Personally, I don’t care for smart phones. I have a couple but no service (well, wifi) they are just for experiments.
John Bouck said:
…Now if AW goes the way of Crest, I’ll just use up my stock of AW until I’m down to one. Then I’ll give up. By then I’ll be gone anyway.
I was thinking about that last night as well, but more and more, I don’t know that’s going to be an issue. The Airwire throttle communication protocol and frequency band is kind of the de facto standard for deadrail DCC. NCE used it with their G-wire transmitter (which they could very easily re-introduce as small scale deadrail becomes more prevalent). The recent series in GR outlining a do-it-yourself wireless DCC system is also compatible with Airwire. I think the Stanton S-cab stuff is also Airiwire-friendly, but my memory’s vague on that point. (I e-mailed them asking for clarification.) Tam Valley Depot’s receivers are Airwire-compatible. So, you’ve got alternatives, and I’d be willing to bet that pool will only expand as time goes on.
None of my recent installs have used Airwire’s line of motor/light controllers. They’ve all used Airwire’s Convertr or Tam Valley Depot receivers with common DCC motor/sound decoders. I think we’re moving towards wireless (deadrail) DCC becoming more and more of an open standard in its own right.
Later,
K
I enjoy running my trains, not looking at the controller.
Buttons and knobs and levers that I can move without looking is important.
When I do need to look at a screen, it needs to be sunlight readable.
Simple. I loved my NCE, my Zimo is cool, but a bit overly complex, but both allow me to run trains, not monitor a smartphone screen.
Greg
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Harvey, I can appreciate you just turn the throttle and let a train run.
I’m surmising you are not walking with the train, doing switching or operations.
This thread started on the closing of Crest and the fact that the Crest wireless system won’t be available.
So it’s not a “throwdown” to people that don’t use a wireless throttle, that is: this thread is not meant to be a competition between DC and wireless and battery and fixed throttles.
It is meant or has morphed into: What wireless battery system can be the replacement or alternative to the Crest wireless system.
I think it’s a good discussion, since many people will have to re-think their wireless system. I’m interested in keeping the discussion on wireless alternatives to Crest going.
Regards, Greg
