Large Scale Central

Code 250 outdoors in New England?

Track and Trestles
#21

Paul Burch said:

Tom,

If the center spline were cut out there would be nothing to keep the ties separated. I think the talk about the center spline might be getting overblown. I have lots of SVRR track and if the proper size ballast is used it is not really a problem. I tried to post some photos but can’t get it to work. What used to work for me doesn’t want to anymore. Well, got it to kind of work. The front track in the first photo is SVRR rail in Accucraft tie strip. The second track is SVRR. The last two photos are pure SVRR including turnouts.

#22

Paul, is that ballast glued in place?

Greg

#23

Greg,

Now you want me to confess proprietary information. My methods are a little out of the norm, just like me. The track is glued down to smooth concrete roadbed. Most all the ballast is loose. It’s a product called bridge topping that is sold by Manufacturers Minerals here in Washington. I believe it is crushed granite, not sure. I sometimes mix some #1 chicken grit in with it. I do glue down some ballast on the outer edges of the ties where some of the concrete is exposed. That works well. What won’t work is gluing it where it is over dirt. The first freeze will destroy it. I refresh the ballast once a year about the end of February when the weather gets better coming out of winter. Some is brushed back into place with a broom and new added where needed. We had a mild winter so maybe one day of work in a week or two and all will be well this year. I run battery power so electrical continuity is not a concern. With that in mind I need to pay special care to allow gaps for expansion. The rail joiners are spread just a little so the rail can slide. The six foot rail sections are spray painted with Rustoleum before assembly. Stacked up between long nails on a board, about eight are sprayed at a time. The track is aluminum. Turnouts are all SVRR, #6,#8 and even one #10. Brass, nickel silver and Stainless. I bought where I could get deals, so that is why the mix. When I buy a new one my preference is nickel silver. Being too fussy with the looks when installing track outdoors, in my opinion, is not worth it. Mother nature will even everything out in short order. LAYING GOOD SOUND SMOOTH TRACK IS THE IMPORTANT THING. Some of the track has been down since 2005. If for some reason a section comes loose, usually do to a really hot day, I just remove it, clean it up or replace the ties and reset it. Doesn’t happen very often.

#24

Thanks Paul, your trackwork and presentation is just plain beautiful, and have always wanted to ask. In the few places you do glue the ballast, pray tell what do you use? Almost everyone I know that starts out in the hobby trys to glue ballast and it normally ends in disaster.

Regards, Greg

#25

Paul, do you have concrete under your track throughout the whole layout? What is the structure like?

#26

Greg, Eric,

Greg, I use concrete bonder that I get at Home Depot. The stuff that looks like white glue. It is dispensed into one of those condiment containers that are used for ketchup,etc. Some brands will need to be thinned a little. Just put down the ballast and give it a good wetting with the bonder.

Eric, yes, the track is on concrete roadbed. I use cedar bender board for forms that have been ripped to about 2.5 inches. Stakes are used to hold it with screws. Use a short level to make sure the side to side is level. That is really important for good running, especially with long wheel base locos and cars. It is really surprising how little the level can be off and cause problems. There is a piece of 3/8 rebar down the middle. Leave a piece sticking out the end to tie to the next pour. Trowel the concrete smooth trying to make sure there are no humps or dips in it, especially humps. Really pretty simple.

#27

Like Eric I am up in New England as well and when I do get to my layout was thinking of just letting track free float on a good bed of well draining crusher fines. What I have been wondering and considering is do I maybe concrete board or something under switched to help keep them level? I was going to do some cross-overs and double cross overs and seems like be a good idea to ensure they are all on the same plane.

#28

The controversy over floating and solid underlayment has been going forever.

One thing is for certain, having read every forum for about 17 years now, a poorly prepared concrete base (cross level, reinforcement, on expansive soil, etc.) will not only give you trouble, but is hell to rip up.

Likewise free floating ballast where it get’s washed away all the time is a pain.

On the other hand, people like Paul and Marty Cozad have have very good success with the solid base. They both use rebar in the concrete and take care in the preparation. Mild climates are easy, ones with temperature extremes need more care and preparation.

Greg

#29

I have significant temperature swings, here in beautiful Deer Park, -10F to 110F, plus occasional visits by Bambi, and his bigger cousins, Moose and Elk. I have a raised roadbed for probably 1/2 the mainline, the rest is floated.

Maintenance of Way is necessary, no matter where you live. You just have to find what works for you.

#30

Here in Gig Harbor Washington we will get down to the low 20’s on rare occasions. Mid 90’s is usually tops in summer. With that in mind it has not bothered my concrete at all.

#31

Joseph Lupinski said:

Like Eric I am up in New England as well and when I do get to my layout was thinking of just letting track free float on a good bed of well draining crusher fines. What I have been wondering and considering is do I maybe concrete board or something under switched to help keep them level? I was going to do some cross-overs and double cross overs and seems like be a good idea to ensure they are all on the same plane.

Much the same feeling here. I too am in the Northeast. Here on our little farm we have fencing and structures of various materials set into the ground at different depths and I am very aware of the effects of frost heave and washout. The proposed site has excellent drainage due to the fact the area was filled with sandy soil prior to building our home. However, the soil is not of consistent density so I feel the need to “level” the track as well. I plan on using PVC board ladder with PVC pipe stakes.

#32

Followup question for Paul Burch on this old thread: what do you use to glue the tie strips to the concrete?

#33

Eric,

How much variation in temperatures do you have?

I’ve seen my track move laterally on curves with the changes. My temps range from 30 - 118, but I only witness between 50 and 100 degrees. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)I’ve noted 1 1/2" total movement.

I think of the track as an unit of I beams and rely on it’s integrity to maintain the tracks placement.

I would suggest loops over a tie so the track can breathe.

I don’t bother since my ballast provides enough resistance.