Ted,
Thanks for doing the test. Pretty close to a match. In your photo it looks like the #1 coupler on the car might be sitting at a very slight downward angle. Could that be why they don’t match? I have never had to make the coupler hole larger on a Kadee coupler to fit the Kadee box. The same 911 box is used for both G and #1. I will try one of the pockets if I get a chance. I don’t have anything in the works right now, but it does look like I could use these for locomotive body mounts.
Paul Burch said:
Ted,
Question1:
“Thanks for doing the test. Pretty close to a match. In your photo it looks like the #1 coupler on the car might be sitting at a very slight downward angle. Could that be why they don’t match?”
Answer1:
The camera lends can also affect how it looks in picture. Something to consider, too, is from different production runs, there may be factory car tolerance variations in the manufacturing & assembly process.
The difference in No. 1 coupler height from the railhead is small enough that a very thin shim could be placed under the tail of CamPac Box to remedy the mismatch with the Kadee No. 1 gauge. The one caution about doing that is that it’s critical there be sufficient mounting screw thread penetration into the car’s mounting pad bosses when fastening the CamPac Box. The factory bosses don’t have that much depth for threading in mounting screws normally used for attaching their adapter. Paul, I know you will appreciate that and have the skill level finesse to make for a good result.
Question2:
“I have never had to make the coupler hole larger on a Kadee coupler to fit the Kadee box. The same 911 box is used for both G and #1. I will try one of the pockets if I get a chance. I don’t have anything in the works right now, but it does look like I could use these for locomotive body mounts.”
Answer2:
The CamPac Box coupler mounting post diameter is optimized for mounting the Kadee “G” AAR E type coupler - like the coupler from the Kadee 907 kit. (The “G” scale AAR E coupler shank hole is larger than both the older “G” version and the No. 1 scale coupler, too.) The CamPac Box post diameter was done to minimize coupler vertical offset sag that is more critical for a coupler design with short shank compared to a long shank coupler that’s in, for example, the Kadee 906 large foot print box.
From measurements made, the older style Kadee “G” coupler from the Kadee 789 kit has a smaller diameter hole in its shank. The “G” AAR E coupler shank hole also includes a small “v” notch in it that the other couplers do not.
The Kadee No. 1 coupler from the Kadee 1907 kit shank hole diameter is approximately 0.020 inch smaller than the Kadee “G” AAR E coupler.
Consequently, the two basic difference between the “G” AAR E application and No. 1 appreciation (slight coupler height mismatch with gauge & smaller shank hole) may justify a “spin off” version of the CamPac Box.
-Ted
Colin Camarillo said:
Hey all,
I wanted to let you all know that I have been working with Ted Doskaris in developing Direct Fitment coupler boxes for Kadee Center Set Couplers (#907) currently for select Locomotives and Rolling Stock.
Colin, Ted,
Have yall thought about patent infringement? You are including a copy of the Kadee draft gear box design. When Eric Reuter and I were working on Kadee coupler adapters for USAT locos, I considered incorporating the box but thought better of it to avoid any legal issues.
Dan,
Having done a search, Kadee has patents on the coupler. I have not found patents on the box itself.
The CamPac box can be considered as an accessory that uses the parts from a Kadee coupler kit, except for the box. The user is to acquire the whole Kadee kit to obtain those parts.
The CamPac box facilitates direct body mount fitment of centerset type couplers to selected 1/29 scale cars and locos.
-Ted
Hey all,
Sorry for my absence, as I have been VERY busy. Thanks Ted for answering all of the questions!
Chris K, Thanks for the interest and comments. Stay tuned for more updates as we continue to develop the SD40-2
Red C, Looks like Ted added some photos of the 4-Bay CFH and now there are more on the website.
Bob, The site has been updated with the pricing. Thank you!
Paul, if you are interested We might make a spin off box for the 1907 coupler, at this moment we are focused on dialing-in the 907 “G” coupler type.
Rooster, THANKS!
Dan G, I think Ted said it all!
As for updates with the products:
The USAT 4 Bay Center Flow Hopper car is Complete, (Pending locating the correct screws that are used to secure it to the Car Frame) Photos have been added to the website, once we locate the correct screws pricing will be added.
“At bat”, is the USAT SD40-2
“On deck” is the USAT F3
That being said. If anyone can send me a link of where I can find the OEM screws used for the USAT 4 Bay Center Flow Hopper Car, That would be awesome!
Thanks!
Ted Doskaris said:
Dan,
Having done a search, Kadee has patents on the coupler. I have not found patents on the box itself.
The CamPac box can be considered as an accessory that uses the parts from a Kadee coupler kit, except for the box. The user is to acquire the whole Kadee kit to obtain those parts.
The CamPac box facilitates direct body mount fitment of centerset type couplers to selected 1/29 scale cars and locos.
-Ted
Unfortunately, Googling Kadee patents would not hold up in court. Of course I’m sure Kadee would not spend the money to sue you. I’m just thinking since you are obviously looking to profit using their product design, maybe you should get their blessing. Just the right thing to do IMHO. Better than them finding out by someone calling Kadee and ordering “some more of those CamPac adapters”.
Dan Gilchrist said:
Unfortunately, Googling Kadee patents would not hold up in court. Of course I’m sure Kadee would not spend the money to sue you. I’m just thinking since you are obviously looking to profit using their product design, maybe you should get their blessing. Just the right thing to do IMHO. Better than them finding out by someone calling Kadee and ordering “some more of those CamPac adapters”.
Since Kadee, AML and USA all use the same(-ish) box design without issue, I wouldn’t worry. Besides there’s no way Kadee could clear the prior works clause to get a patent on a box to hold a coupler.
Colin Camarillo said:
The USAT 4 Bay Center Flow Hopper car is Complete, (Pending locating the correct screws that are used to secure it to the Car Frame) Photos have been added to the website, once we locate the correct screws pricing will be added.
I was pretty sure the screws were m2.5x4mm.
Red Chaplin said:
Dan Gilchrist said:
Unfortunately, Googling Kadee patents would not hold up in court. Of course I’m sure Kadee would not spend the money to sue you. I’m just thinking since you are obviously looking to profit using their product design, maybe you should get their blessing. Just the right thing to do IMHO. Better than them finding out by someone calling Kadee and ordering “some more of those CamPac adapters”.
Since Kadee, AML and USA all use the same(-ish) box design without issue, I wouldn’t worry. Besides there’s no way Kadee could clear the prior works clause to get a patent on a box to hold a coupler.
Kadee would have to go all the way back to Mantua and Globe and a few others from the 30’s, 40’s and 50’s…
Dan Gilchrist said:
Ted Doskaris said:
Snip…Unfortunately, Googling Kadee patents would not hold up in court. Of course I’m sure Kadee would not spend the money to sue you. I’m just thinking since you are obviously looking to profit using their product design, maybe you should get their blessing. Just the right thing to do IMHO. Better than them finding out by someone calling Kadee and ordering “some more of those CamPac adapters”…SnipDan, I did not use Google searching. I went direct to the USTPO. Are you a patent attorney or agent?
-Ted
Ted Doskaris said:
Dan, I did not use Google searching. I went direct to the USTPO. Are you a patent attorney or agent?
-Ted
I am not. I apologize. My statement was not mean’t to be taken literally. Only that searching the Internet is not sufficient protection against litigation.
I just thought it would nice if you let them know. I will continue to print adapters that use the Kadee boxes and give them away.
-Dan
I would tend to take Red’s perspective, that these other manufacturers not only make a pretty close clone of the Kadee box, but in the case of AML, they also made a coupler to fit in it.
If Kadee did not go after AML, you would think this situation and the fact the consumer still needs to buy the complete unit from Kadee, should be much less of a deal.
Greg