Heck, HJ laughs at my attempts in English … uhhh… American … whatever!
Andreas,
I’ll jump in as well. I odered a few items from them and also ended up calling and found them to be quite helpful, and responsive.
From a more objective standpoint I read this post compared to historical data. It seems another sites demise was brought about by negativity, and bashing certain businesses/manufacturers.
I am ever hopeful that these types of things do not find their way into this site. It is completely counterproductive, and negates any positive thoughts about someone, or some product.
As for languages, I suspect the reply you got was likely correct in content if there were mis-spelled words. There are many of us who have been away from school or a professional environment that required any writing, so this is not as out of the ordinary as you might think. Put the red pen down sir, and step away from the coffee cup. It just isn’t that bad.
I am a member here to take away some of the techniques offered, and learn from others mistakes. Negative comments will only make quit looking after a time.
On a final note, it doesn’t take much looking to see that a great many members of this site are not only American, but War Veterans who I will not speak for, but I personally am a veteran of just a couple of wars, and am thin skinned about comments about My Country.
All the best to you in Thailand Sir.
Mike Morgan said:
Hey , why all the fuss ? .... The chap seems to have a genuine gripe , and has tried to explain what and why . So cut some slack and try to help instead of throat diving .Mike , bloody disgusted
Mike, old buddy, I would if it wasn’t for:
Andreas Herter said:
Ralph,“American treatment” was used after whole the story already happened and it was meant cynical. Some people have a very thin skin.
Does that really sound like a legitimate gripe, or just shit stirring? Even allowing for the vagaries of a babelfish translation, by his own words it sounds like the latter – ESPECIALLY when the start of this thread was his SECOND post, EVER… And as for the thin skin part, once people started to disagree with him.
Andreas Herter said:It ain't a case of a buch of mean old ugly 'mericans ganging up on him because he's a foreigner, and talks funny. No matter HOW you'd like to spin it that way. It's a case of somebody being unreasonable, and trying trash good people's reputations being called for the same.
...Wish you happy modeling. And I have enough from this "discussion"....
Off my soapbox.
Oh dear .
I have to tell you that “American treatment” is a phrase heard too often over here in Europe .
I like America and Americans generally , so I do my best to correct the people who use the expression .
This is in spite of having had some pretty shoddy treatment at the hands of dealers in the USA , to such an extent that I no longer bother to try buying through the post from the USA .
Let me tell you a short tale about my son going into a Model Shop in Los Angeles , trying to avoid the postal service . He was eventually identified as English—which he speaks surprisingly well —and told quite nastily when enquiring the price of an unmarked article "You foreigners can’t afford it " . So my son plonked his other purchases down on the counter-----over $2000 worth , and walked out . His American wife was mortified .
I have heard of similar occurrences from other UK would be buyers . Some of you may remember my mentioning my own experiences on trying to buy from the USA before .
Do you think that our Dutch friend invented the words “American Treatment” . His command of English does not , I feel , stretch that far .
I admire the Americans greatly , but you do have your fair share of insular people----by which I mean those who have never travelled outside the USA , aren’t familiar with anything without the US Border , or even the State border in some cases .
And , believe this , there are Americans here in UK bases who rarely , if ever , set foot outside the base .
When I have asked them which historic places they have visited in the UK or Germany , or Cyprus , the answer is generally along the lines of feeling secure in the base , nothing of interest outside the base , we have all we want inside the base -------so how in heck do you learn about other people and what they think of the USA and its people ?
So there are misunderstandings
Did you know that characteristically , the Dutch (who I also admire) are in general very forthright ?
So now translate from Dutch what it is the chap was trying to say .
And try to see the broader picture .
Not one of you has so far suggested what could be done about problems caused by your inability to speak foreign languages , speaking loudly in English is not a substitute . Expecting the rest of the world to speak English is a bit insular .
So , I say again , cut some slack .
Offer our Dutch friend some help in increasing your country’s exports .
Mike , still bloody disgusted
Well, Mike, I guess the bottom line here is, he had a gripe with an american manufacturer. If he had left it at that, we could all probably agree with him. We’ve all had similar issues such as his. The fact that he lumps all the rest of us in the same category is where our agreeing with him ends. I’m very sure there are just as many ignorant asshole in Europe as there are in this country.
BTW, how many different foreign languages are we supposed to learn? German? Dutch? French? Italian? Japanese? Chinese? Russian?
Ken ,
Our Dutchman did not lump all of you together . He was using an all to common expression to show his frustration .
If he thought all Americans are the same , why write to an American website asking for advice/comment/help or whatever ?
I don’t doubt that many of you use territorial expressions -----mexican screwdriver ,etc. I do not think that it tars all mexicans with the same brush . No more than "french letters " would stop you using one if necessary .
Do you now dislike all Dutchmen ?
The fact that one has picked up a term which would offend some does not in itself imply malice .
Like I said , he asked for help .
Your responses should be aimed at disabusing the gentleman from applying words perhaps he did not fully comprehend the meaning of .
Show the generosity of the American character by friendly intercourse , not by wielding a big stick .
Mike
Yes,
We have our share of insular people…as does every other country in the world.
You can drive 800 miles from Texarkana, Tx and arrive in El Paso, Tx.
How many national borders would you cross driving 800 miles in Europe?
Bangor, Maine to San Diego,California is 3280 miles. Yes, we can be very well traveled without leaving the country.
We may speak the same language. But trust me. People in Lake Charles, Louisiana, are very different from those in
Trenton, NJ.
We have as much diversity in one country than Europeans have in an entire continent.
So, Mike, you can feel superior and well traveled.
However, it doesn’t make it so.
I’ve been to Europe several times. However, most of the lengthy conversations I’ve had with Europeans,
took place right here in these United States.
Ralph
The American Treatment may have some validity.
Our society appears to have coarsened in recent decades. So many people blame others for their poor decisions, with TV and at times films, perpetuating the victim mentality, and many people are angry and indifferent.
The quality of customer service, at least here in the States united seems to have deteriorated over the past few decades. Customer complaints received by some businesses are taken as a personal insult rather than the final step in quality control of that company’s product or service.
Excuse the philosophical rant, but one of my personal campaigns has been to NOT accept poor quality service or products and respectfully take the time and effort to “provide companies with their final step in quality control”; customer satisfaction.
David Hill said:
The American Treatment may have some validity.Our society appears to have coarsened in recent decades. So many people blame others for their poor decisions, with TV and at times films, perpetuating the victim mentality, and many people are angry and indifferent.
The quality of customer service, at least here in the States united seems to have deteriorated over the past few decades. Customer complaints received by some businesses are taken as a personal insult rather than the final step in quality control of that company’s product or service.
Excuse the philosophical rant, but one of my personal campaigns has been to NOT accept poor quality service or products and respectfully take the time and effort to “provide companies with their final step in quality control”; customer satisfaction.
David,
I don’t accept poor customer service either. But if I have a problem, I try to address it in a calm, rational manner.
Sometimes, I’ve been an a-hole, and received the a-hole treatment in return.
If I can’t resolve the problem…I no longer do business with the firm.
Some people are not worth the trouble of doing business with…customers as well as vendors.
Some of the worst customer service I’ve received, were foreigners doing business in these United States.
It is not a problem inclusive to “Americans”.
Ralph
David,
I don’t know if I can totally agree with your assessment, but I certainly respect it and will consider it in my evaluation of future Customer Relations.
Around 1985, as an employee, I was required to take a Phone Etiquette class. I think many people in Corporations were required to do this. It was most interesting to be taught what to do and say correctly. However, inadvertently we were also taught all the buzz words and how to piss somebody off in very few words. I kind of consider this mid 80’s period to be the benchmark where things went hey wire.
In my own business, I found people seem to have learned both things. Negotiations is limited to resolve problems or concerns and absolute Customer Satisfaction seems to have reached the ridiculous. A simple example is the difference of getting drunk or being over served. And then, of course, we have the lawyers that really never seem to care about the proper outcome, as long as they win. We work extremely hard to treat all the people we meet with utmost respect and concern for their wants and needs. Many times we are restricted by government regulations, insurance regulations and the ability of what we are capable of doing as a company. That seems to never be a good enough answer and we get blamed for everything from ruining their day to Global Warming. A very good local welding shop, that will work overtime and bend over backwards to resolve all of their customers concerns has a prominently displayed sign - “Obviously you have misunderstood that a miss calculation on you part does nessitate an emergency on our part”.
Mike, I met those types of Americans during my three different tours in Europe, but I was not one of them. I travelled ALL of Europe and the British Isles as well, and found the brits in the smaller towns, (a small village called Eye in Norfolk in particular) to be a brilliant lot to knock a pint or 2 back with. I also made the effort to learn German (fluently) and can understand many of the dialects, which is more than some of the germans themselves. I also have rudmentary Spanish skills and can get by in France too, having travelled there as well. The stereotypical attitude can definitely go both ways Sir.
You have of course met Brits that were perfect a$$es, but you daren’t say that Brits are a$$es as a whole now do you.
We American have our issues, and I can say that there are some people I just don’t care for, but that is an individual thing.
Ralph made some good points about doing business with folks, and hit the nail on the head. Just don’t do business with them again and it is difficult to go wrong.
The underlying issue was not in translation for me, it is the derogatory tone of both the title and content of the post. Absolutely uncalled for.
Your pride in your country runs every bit as deep as ours. I know, I have served with your Soldiers too.
Many postings about a very simple thing, but I don’t see it as a rude American. Had those comments been made over the counter to that mans wife or child I suspect a very different form of ‘American Treatment’ would have ensued.
Hi all,
I had a similar bad credit card experience with Ozark last month. The day after my purchase, my debit card was frozen by my bank due to its use at Ozark, and I’;ve bought from Ozark for years.
Something is not quite right there…
Matt
Ralph ,
I do not quite get your drift . I do not claim to be superior . But I am well travelled . I was a professional serviceman whose work took me all over the world , getting variously shot at , welcomed ,
ignored , attacked , loved .
At 73ish , I can claim to have learned how to behave , how not to behave , how to insult people , how not to insult people---------I think you may see my drift . None of this has made me feel superior .
But I do feel qualified to offer advice occasionally , particularly in this instance .
This Dutch chap meant no offence . No more than you did when you told me I could feel superior .
The problem here is that you are sat comfortably in a non confrontational situation , so maybe feel like it does not matter what you say . Which could , arguably , cover our Dutch friend’s case .
Had he been talking face to face , he may have used the same words , but what would your reaction have
been ? Punch his mouth , or gently tell him that he may not fully understand the possible offence ?.
Experience would dictate the latter . It’s called diplomacy .
Mike
Don ,
I was busy composing so did not see your post before I finished my last one .
Yours is a well considered reply and I would be loath to say untypical for an American . Quite the opposite .
And therein lies the truth of what I have been saying . You are not insular , but are well travelled and have taken advantage of travels to peculiar places to further your education .
But , but , did you not notice in Europe the tendency to call a spade a spade ? Especially among the Dutch and Belgians . I travel there frequently enough , so does my son -----who incidentally , when I showed him the post in question , said “what’s wrong with that ?” When I told him he said "well , they obviously do not understand continental Europeans " .
We have come to respect their “attitude” . It is not malicious , it stems from the militaristic background . So they do not waste time with mealy mouthing . Try reading about the Captain of Kopenik .Very funny and apt .
If America should rule the world , let it first know who it shall govern .
Mike
Don Pearson said:
.....Many postings about a very simple thing, but I don’t see it as a rude American. Had those comments been made over the counter to that mans wife or child I suspect a very different form of ‘American Treatment’ would have ensued.
Don,
You’d be amazed what a bit of an accent can resolve in those situations.
BTW from my point of view - as a customer and a supplier - both attitudes are straight over the top.
Andreas’ since he didn’t allow for the Christmas/New Year holidays, year-end inventory in some cases, the flu etc. etc.
Ozark’s if one sends a “pissed off” reply, at least one should check all the grammar, spelling amd punctuation. It’s uncanny how that will s-l-o-w down the process and lower the temperature.
Soooo do you understand the Swiss-German dialects as well? 
Matt Hutson said:
Hi all, I had a similar bad credit card experience with Ozark last month. The day after my purchase, my debit card was frozen by my bank due to its use at Ozark, and I';ve bought from Ozark for years.Something is not quite right there…
Matt
Matt.
Thank you.
I am not alone.
I also found out I can’t save to the shopping cart with Foxfire at Ozark. Had to switch to IE to shop there.
Fox works on all my other e-tail shops.
To all,
To make it clear, I am not slamming Ozarks. I buy their stuff all the time from several venders including my LHS.
And I will continue to do so.
But…???
For those (including Mike) who think I am the one in the wrong, and just a provincial boob. Let me tell you a few small things you might not know - or much care.
First, I owned my own business, in another part of the hobby sector, for over a decade. I shipped worldwide, well everywhere except Romania and Nigeria, for obvious reasons. In general, I found the Asian and European peoples much easier to have dealings with than many in North America. BUT, I also found people everywhere who were pretty much “toxic customers”, who would, and could not be pleased. Even if you gave them the damned stuff for FREE, they’d complain because you didn’t include free overnight shipping too.
Among these toxic customers, charging back after the item had been shipped was a very popular little scam. Perhaps those ugly Americans invented it, but there were Canadians, Europeans and people in Hong Kong who were REAL quick studies… AND you’d often get an email like that, or one stating all or part of it never arrived - even though the tracking said it did… And the CC company would reach into your bank and take the money out… ALL of it, even if they were disputing $5 on a $500 order. And most of the time, no matter HOW much supporting documentation you had, you didn’t get it back… the ‘customer’ (read scamming asshole) got the merchandise AND the money… and you were told to go to wherever he lived and sue him if you didn’t like it. Neither your bank, nor your CC processor, nor the attorney general, or provincial police, nor… were in the LEAST bit interested in helping you… because it was “a business disagreement” — that you somehow agreed to be scammed, screwed, and abused just because you hung out a shingle. I had FIVE of them in my last year of business, alone. That’s a big part of why I’m no longer in business. If somebody lifted a total $7,000.00 out of your bank account, then what would it do to you?
Next, attitude… Oh, yeah, many American business people DO have a shitty attitude… do you know where it comes from? See above. Then add in the clowns who take up 3 days of your time asking questions, then take the information that you provided to buy it elsewhere to save $3… add the clowns that tear open your merchandise, read your magazines, mess up your displays, complain about your prices, and then LEAVE without buying a diddly-damned thing. People will complain about everything imaginable, and and some you never imagined, then expect you to fix things that they broke - through negligence or even abuse, for free… even when they didn’t BUY it off you. Inconsiderate, rude, obnoxious, impatient customers are quite plentiful, that kind of trade you can have all you ever wanted.
Yes, it’s only maybe 5% of the customers (10% online)… but how many times a day would you need people to dump manure on your head before you’d get a little crabby, or maybe quick on the draw when it sounded like it was going to happen again?
That said, the people at Ozark are ALWAYS (in my experience) very nice, very polite, and very friendly. Crap like this, they just don’t need.
Now, back to the gentleman in question. If he did NOT intend to offend, then he did a rather poor job of it. His response implies he DID intend to offend. And if HE was offended to get the same back as he was actually sending, then I’m sorry. No, I suppose, ‘Sorry don’t feed the bulldog’, but that’s all he’s gonna get. It’s like when you loan someone $20 and never see them again… it was probably a wise investment.
I’m done, have the last word, Mike
OK ,
The last word .
Mike
SUCH FUN!
I lurk here every day just for the entertainment. Every once in a while I learn something about large scale trains.
Norm
Yeah but only every once in awhile LOL Hah Regal
(http://www.lscdata.com/users/blueregal/_forumfiles/palin.jpg.jpg)
The New Fox commentator I guess Oh Geeez!!! Now there is some news fer ya that don’t know it yet! See ya do learns sometin every oncest in awhile Hah LOL