Large Scale Central

Building the CR&N Deadline:July 2017

Articles
#861

Bruce Chandler said:

My own 2 cents.

I don’t believe that the railroad decides how to set up a switch area: industries are not always located where the railroad switching crew would like to have them. What starts off as a simple spur gets added to as more industries decide to build nearby and we soon have a complicated switching area…

Bruce, yes, that is what happens. But, even though that is what happens, the railroads to try, if they can, to not end up with a maze the crews have to negotiate through. But sometimes it happens. Down near one of my customer’s, the railroad has redone the track-work, to add a run around, and to move the switches to the spurs to the other side of the highway. So instead of a 2 track grade crossing, its a one track crossing, and the run around along the mainline allows for easier switching.

#862

Personally I enjoyed this one: (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#863

Devon, I used to work at a High Fructose Corn Syrup transloading station, and we had spots for 15 cars on our track. they also had 3 different suppliers, Cerestar, AE Staley & Cargill for different customers and 4 different types of product, 42,55,36/43 and liquid sugar. so switching the track every night was interesting, as they had to pull the whole string out, pick out, say spots 4-5-8-9-11-14 as empties, then as per our orders pick out specific cars for each of those spots since we kept certain products in certain spots to keep from loading the wrong stuff for the wrong customer. Just switching that would take 2 +hours, they did it once middle of the day, WOW what a pain it was as we had to unhook all equipment then stand around waiting until they were done. I would love to have some room to replicate it, maybe not with 15 or 20 of Burl Rice’s corn syrup cars, but with beer can cars, it might be fun to do.

#864

David Maynard said:

Bruce, yes, that is what happens. But, even though that is what happens, the railroads to try, if they can, to not end up with a maze the crews have to negotiate through. But sometimes it happens. Down near one of my customer’s, the railroad has redone the track-work, to add a run around, and to move the switches to the spurs to the other side of the highway. So instead of a 2 track grade crossing, its a one track crossing, and the run around along the mainline allows for easier switching.

IF, and that’s a big IF, they have the space to do it and it’s profitable. Existing structures, roadways, rivers will act as barriers to all that.

#865

Randy Lehrian Jr. said:

If you want to see how tough Jackson can be, check out this thread on switching it. I took me a while to figure out the solution.

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/23773/switching-puzzle-train-2-at-jackson

I’m also looking forward to see what your decide on rail joiners, since I’m a code 250 aluminum fella my self. I did notice some of the white fuzz, while removing my brass Split-Jaws after just over a year outside on the former layout. Wasn’t bad but it was there.

Edit for page… 44!!! , oh my, must be in one of Devon’s threads. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Ooh, thanks for finding that Randy. I added it to my master list!

#866

Ken Brunt said:

David Maynard said:

Bruce, yes, that is what happens. But, even though that is what happens, the railroads to try, if they can, to not end up with a maze the crews have to negotiate through. But sometimes it happens. Down near one of my customer’s, the railroad has redone the track-work, to add a run around, and to move the switches to the spurs to the other side of the highway. So instead of a 2 track grade crossing, its a one track crossing, and the run around along the mainline allows for easier switching.

IF, and that’s a big IF, they have the space to do it and it’s profitable. Existing structures, roadways, rivers will act as barriers to all that.

Yes, that is true. But modelers seam to delight in designing complex and mind blowing puzzles just for the “fun” of watching a switch crew become frustrated. But the real railroads try and simplify as much as possible/practical. Sometimes its not possible to simplify an area that has grown up in stages over time into a puzzle, but the railroads don’t start out trying to make puzzles.

Like I said, one of the NMRA club members did a sort of switching puzzle on his pair of modules. No one takes the time to switch out his industries during a show. Not even the guy who built it.

#867

Randy Lehrian Jr. said:

I’m also looking forward to see what your decide on rail joiners, since I’m a code 250 aluminum fella my self. I did notice some of the white fuzz, while removing my brass Split-Jaws after just over a year outside on the former layout. Wasn’t bad but it was there.

Randy,

I am not surprised to hear you had an issue with brass/aluminum connections. Aluminum is a ready sacrificial anode. Since Split Jaw does make Aluminum code 250 joiners for Llagas if and when I do buy them I will only buy aluminum. I work in the water business where we work with several dissimilar metals and have to fight the problems. Then as a sailor I saw the effects there as well. Practical experience has told me that you just don’t mix metals, period. Some may get away with it and be fine. I can’t argue others experience but I have no time for that when it can be avoided. Stainless usually plays nice so I am not worried about the standard rail joiners.

I will keep you posted on what I do and what becomes of it.

#868

David Maynard said:

Ken Brunt said:

David Maynard said:

Bruce, yes, that is what happens. But, even though that is what happens, the railroads to try, if they can, to not end up with a maze the crews have to negotiate through. But sometimes it happens. Down near one of my customer’s, the railroad has redone the track-work, to add a run around, and to move the switches to the spurs to the other side of the highway. So instead of a 2 track grade crossing, its a one track crossing, and the run around along the mainline allows for easier switching.

IF, and that’s a big IF, they have the space to do it and it’s profitable. Existing structures, roadways, rivers will act as barriers to all that.

Yes, that is true. But modelers seam to delight in designing complex and mind blowing puzzles just for the “fun” of watching a switch crew become frustrated. But the real railroads try and simplify as much as possible/practical. Sometimes its not possible to simplify an area that has grown up in stages over time into a puzzle, but the railroads don’t start out trying to make puzzles.

Like I said, one of the NMRA club members did a sort of switching puzzle on his pair of modules. No one takes the time to switch out his industries during a show. Not even the guy who built it.

Well, I don’t think I would ever have fun watching a crew get frustrated. I like to see the aha moment where they realize it’s not nearly as tough as they first thought. Not to mention that I am typically the crew in question

#869

David Maynard said:

Like I said, one of the NMRA club members did a sort of switching puzzle on his pair of modules. No one takes the time to switch out his industries during a show. Not even the guy who built it.

Reminds me of the time I switched a “puzzle” during a train show. The owner thought he had cleverly designed it, but he failed to realize that a professional rail was working his puzzle. The setup was fairly simple, switch a few cars around, but you had limited room. Problem was he also had 2 or 3 empty tracks at the adjacent industry. I simple shoved the cars around using all available tracks including the ones at the cement plant that I wasn’t supposed to use. As I’m in the middle of solving the puzzle, at a much rapid pace than he is used to, he pipes up and says," you can’t use those tracks" pointing to the empty tracks at the cement plant. I turned to him and said “we do this all the time at work, why can’t I do it here?” He quickly shut up, and I finished the “puzzle” and walked away… I recall seeing the expression of his fellow club members of “haha he got you” to the module owner.

#870

David Marconi said:

Personally I enjoyed this one: (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

Dave I am not sure if I should thank you or curse you. I like this and since I do have the wye and the are the right of it (left in this pictre) I could do this, lol.

#871

Here’s an example of a prototype problem, but yet if modeled becomes quite complex.
http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/magazine/mrh2017-03/switching-puzzle

#872

David Maynard said:

Like I said, one of the NMRA club members did a sort of switching puzzle on his pair of modules. No one takes the time to switch out his industries during a show. Not even the guy who built it.

And this is the crux of my dilemma. I am not interested in “real” as I am in interesting. The idea of introducing complexity was to give people something to do on a small layout where only so much can be done. But if it leads to frustration and no one wants to do it then the whole area becomes a waste of space were it could have been used. As can be seen from the responses here some will like puzzles, some wont. I happen to like them, at least the Ingelnook, our club president brings to meetings. But I do notice that only one or two people give it a try. Other seem uninterested.

I think at the end of the day I really Like Craig’s idea and it basically what Pete describes at the corn syrup outfit. I can make a workable dual track siding with what I have on hand and make that my ore facility. I will complicate it with say four spots to dump ore. Then on regular ops session people can just pull in and dump. But if I get some that want a challenge then I can make them dump certain cars in certain places. I can always gro this section into a puzzle later if the urge strikes.

#873

Pete Lassen said:

Devon, I used to work at a High Fructose Corn Syrup transloading station, and we had spots for 15 cars on our track. they also had 3 different suppliers, Cerestar, AE Staley & Cargill for different customers and 4 different types of product, 42,55,36/43 and liquid sugar. so switching the track every night was interesting, as they had to pull the whole string out, pick out, say spots 4-5-8-9-11-14 as empties, then as per our orders pick out specific cars for each of those spots since we kept certain products in certain spots to keep from loading the wrong stuff for the wrong customer. Just switching that would take 2 +hours, they did it once middle of the day, WOW what a pain it was as we had to unhook all equipment then stand around waiting until they were done. I would love to have some room to replicate it, maybe not with 15 or 20 of Burl Rice’s corn syrup cars, but with beer can cars, it might be fun to do.

Sounds exactly like what we called the “Hole”. 2 tracks; (steam and sugar), 16 spots total for Cargill here in Seattle. A good crew could switch the hole in 2 to 3 hours, while a new crew could take all 12. We usually started working the hole sometime after 15:00, so it wasn’t too much of a disruption to the customer, and having to clear the grade crossing every 15 minutes. One of the fun things was it was at the bottom of a hill, with a slight up hill after the grade crossing, so a good crew could actually kick cars between the two tracks. That gets the blood flowing on both the ground and in the cab… Did both! If Cargill wasn’t bad enough, one of the tracks was also the lead for another tank car industry behind it. So if you switched Cargill and Rainier Oil, all you dealt with was tanks cars… A friend of mine was building a version of this in HO scale, but I’m not sure the status of it right now. Here’s a link to his blog and layout design. http://www.gregamer.com/index.php/2012/10/11/track-plan-39/track-plan-industrial-lead-39/

#874

Devon

Did you take any pics of how your layout is looking now? (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)

#875

Sean McGillicuddy said:

Devon

Did you take any pics of how your layout is looking now? (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)

Yes,

But I forgot to post them here. I posted them in the article and was going to post them here but I must have forgot.

#876

I’m a little concerned by this odd junction in the bottom right where a tangent of ladder meets another at a 70 degree junction?

Explain please…

Hurry! Julgust is just around the corner!

John

#877

Devon do you have an updated plan … that shows the complete layout? (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)

#878

I forgot the house looks great in these pics!

#879

To echo Sean’s comment, the house does look great. You did good on that project. If the RR is built with the same care, it will be one fine pike.

I will go ahead and tackle the 800lb gorilla in the room: is it done yet?.

Edit to say: I got page 45, do I get a prize??

#880

First up John,

What do you think that turnout is a little radical for G scale??? No it wont be adjoining track. I did that merely for support. Instead of sinking another piece of PVC for that spur I just ran the ladder all the way to the other section of ladder which is well supported there. I will end the track on that spur at a proper distance from the mainline so it can’t foul the main.

Sean,

I do have the most recent track plan. Although it still isn’t what is going on the ground exactly. As Steve and others have pointed out what is on the computer does not translate to the ground. Instead of posting what I have no I will revise it some evening to reflect more of what is actually happening.

The house did come out nice. This cleared the way for the railroad but now I have to finish the rest of the house. The wife and I decided to tackle one wall a year. I told here I might not get much of it done this year because the wolves are snarling at the door and they want a railroad. So need to focus on that.