Large Scale Central

Brass/Bronze Foundry Custom service

Devon Sinsley said:

Kevin I believe has our drawing done for our tire. Would you need the master to be wax or could I have it printed in plastic and then have you make a mold of it for casting the wax. Also, and I think I know the answer, how precise will the castings be, will they be reading to go or require milling like sand casting them. I am assuming they would be ready to go. Email me and we can talk price and logistics.

Also not sure if it would be helpful or not but I have a rather easy access to bronze. They are water meter bodies and would need to be cut up and melted down. Wouldn’t be shot, but if that’s doable I will supply the material for mine and a great deal more if your interested in working a deal (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif).

Excuse me friend, but prices? Way too soon, I’m still working out the logistics and to see if you can use what I can offer. My budget is so tight I’ll need to know what running the oven, furnace and vacuum pumps cost electrically. I won’t know that until the shop is wired … er a line run to the shop, I wired it years ago.

Regarding a mold, the only ones I’ve made were vulcanized rubber, baked under pressure. Plus a pressurized wax pot and all the accessories it adds up and I would have to add the cost to you because I have no desire what so ever to do production jewelry. That was the UNFUN part of my work. Truth be told I have an aversion to repeating that experience. Cutting a mold can make or break it, warm wax distorts if the mold doesn’t pull away easily. A flat tire would be relatively easy. For me to add those items… New prices for example; waxpot $315, Econo Vulcanizer $445, rubber $50 accessories. ++… How many wheels to pay this off?

I’m not expecting to pay off my present equipment, I just want to use it. My time and costs are all I want, because Trains Matter!

You may have missed this part, I think we can burn out the plastic prints and forgo the wax all together. Also learned that you can get wax prints. My oven hits 2000 F, most ash incinerates at this temp. We will need to look at plastic properties for clean prints and burnout. To fire the investment (plaster) it will sit at 1950F for a couple of hours and then be ramped down to 900 for casting

Way back when, I geared my Unimat down so I could turn wax, too fast and instead of cutting it would melt! If you know a CNC router you could have your waxes milled in this;

https://www.riogrande.com/Product/matt-green-wax-block/700556

Might be cheaper and truer than prints.

I’ve never seen a casting come out shiny, Sterling had Firescale, 75 lousy parts of copper out of a thousand units created a Grey layer on the surface that was harder than the silver, a bright boy took it off (an abrasive impregnated rubber wheel). Gold was pale yellow that could be planished to shiny, but also looked better with a fresh surface. We will learn together what finish we like. I’ll share techniques and steer you to the tools you’ll need.

Sprues have to be cut off and cleaned up. I like to place them where that is easiest. I’ll do the spruing.

A quick casting Primer. Metal shrinks as it cools, a sprue fatter than the thickest part of the model and attached to it will continue to feed metal to the casting as it cools, with out it the model pulls away as it cools and porosity forms and ruins the casting. Casting trees are built with each next part lighter than the feeder; trunk to branches branches to twigs and the nuts

No, reading your mind, my 4 jaw chuck is only 1 7/8" wide and there is too much movement, it’s plastic and aluminum modules bolted together. Ok for my fussy small items…

My email is slower than … truth be told with out a life, I’m here more than looking at it. Oh my phone has a hinge … it’s a leash I wear for my sister… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif).

Gave peace o mind when I was actively exploring abandoned mines.

John

Gary Armitstead said:

Michael and John,

I have the capability to do the drawings. I did this for many years in the forging industry in my trade as a die sinker drawing and making cavities in dies to produce forgings. I use MasterCam as my program. I have done several drawings to build my 1/8th scale railroad locomotives and rolling stock. Maybe I could help with drawings. I don’t have experience in doing drawings for 3D printing. I could learn if anyone has experience in doing this for 3D printing such as Shapeways.

Gary, Thanks for offerring your help… You’ll have to learn 3D cad. I’m very capable in 2D ACAD, I draw archtectural drawings all the time and find my hobby requires a fair amount of effort therein too. I have ventured into my ACAD’s 3D program and rendered a few drawings, there is a learning curve!

Michael

Michael Glavin said:

Gary Armitstead said:

Michael and John,

I have the capability to do the drawings. I did this for many years in the forging industry in my trade as a die sinker drawing and making cavities in dies to produce forgings. I use MasterCam as my program. I have done several drawings to build my 1/8th scale railroad locomotives and rolling stock. Maybe I could help with drawings. I don’t have experience in doing drawings for 3D printing. I could learn if anyone has experience in doing this for 3D printing such as Shapeways.

Gary, Thanks for offerring your help… You’ll have to learn 3D cad. I’m very capable in 2D ACAD, I draw archtectural drawings all the time and find my hobby requires a fair amount of effort therein too. I have ventured into my ACAD’s 3D program and rendered a few drawings, there is a learning curve!

Michael

I KNOW very well how to do 3D cad. 3D Cad drawing is ALL I did for over twenty five years in the aerospace industry! I used surfaces and solids. Then programmed tool paths to cut the cavities in die blocks using CNC mills (Haas, Cincinnati and Seaburg mills) for the forging industry. Forty-five years total as a die sinker. I believe you mis-understood what I was saying about 3D PRINTING. In my trade, I drew very complicated landing gear structures, air frame forgings and even a seat mount left and right for the B1-B bomber. What I need the learn is how Shapeways designs their sprues and trees to print the parts successfully. That’s what I was trying to say. I think drawing in 3D is actually easier than 2D. I have a complete 3D drawing of a Pacific Electric pneumatic trolley pole base for my 1/8 scale Baldwin Electrics. I was thinking that John might be able to cast my trolley parts if I could get Shapeways to make the parts so John could pour the “splash” to form the mold.

I taught 2D and 3D MasterCam at Glendale College for many years. If you need a hand with learning how to do it, let me know.

Gary thank you for your input and if not too large I’d be happy to help you get your parts. I think you need to learn Sketchup which is shapeways language

You lost me on pouring a Splash, that’s a new term for me. A light bulb! Pour the investment to make the flask that goes in the burn out oven to remove the pattern for the metal cast. Ah hah? We just called them flasks when we were ready to cast. The ‘mold’ we used to make wax patterns. Term crosstalk, so cornfuzing!!!

I will add sprues to cast, with wax rods, after you print I’d want it cleaned up. Korm has shown us support forms that don’t lend themselves to being actual sprues. Knowing liquid dynamics we want to avoid turbulence in the metal pour. Even the way a sprue joins matters.

We can also make sub-assemblies that I can hard silver solder together should your larger scale parts push my limits. That will be on a limited basis. I can’t commit to too much until we see how it goes.

John

John,

It’s funny how all the mold trades have different terms meaning the same thing. Definitely “cross-talk”! The photo I posted above showing the drawing of the trolley pole is a pdf file. I can send you some pdf’s of the various parts of this thing with dimensions to give you an idea of the size of the parts that need to be made.

Sketch-Up is a very elementary program for drawing. MasterCam is a high-end software that does both Cad and toolpathing. About $20,000. The nice thing is that Shapeways with accept other file formats such as Iges and DXF. I can convert my MasterCam drawings to DXF and Shapeways can actually use these files to print the parts. At least Shapeways could do this a few years ago.

Understand that when I set this up my goal was jewelry and custom items so it may be smaller than you expect. The largest flask the casting machine holds, is a 5" round x 7" tall flask The button takes 1/2" and thick items require 1/2" or so of investment to cover it. So if my melting crucible will hold the metal, a size of 4x6" (4x 5.5" is better). No way a solid shape that size tho’ unless I torch melt and that shop is too small. I do have the set up for that. Should the biz make a go, I’ll be willing to grow with it and build a proper shop

My boss would have gotten on my case if splashes were frequent!

John

John,

I understand what you’re saying. This is the actual size of the main cylinder on the pneumatic trolley pole. This is probably the largest part.

Hey Gary,

Should be doable.

Dang now I’ve gotta clean out that room and finish my contest entry!

John

Gee, Yunz say “cross-talk”, and we say “differential nomenclature”, so even the term for different terms is different in different industries. Man, this could get confusing.

Gary,

Looks like I didn’t comprehend your capabilities, as you suggested you didn’t have experience in doing drawings for 3D printing. I took it literally I suppose. I’m not familiar with Mastercam CAD/CAM, but own the much simpler offering of BobCAD-CAM, suits my needs. A light should have went when you mentioned a CAD/CAM program…

One of my many desires is to produce a couple different models of Worthington B and BL type Feedwater Superheaters.

Michael

David Maynard said:

Gee, Yunz say “cross-talk”, and we say “differential nomenclature”, so even the term for different terms is different in different industries. Man, this could get confusing.

I can’t afford $5 words.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

John

John Caughey said:

Hey Gary,

Should be doable.

Dang now I’ve gotta clean out that room and finish my contest entry!

John

John,

I received an email this morning from Adela Zemkova at Shapeways. She said if I could convert my MC files to STL, they would be able to work with my parts. I have an STL converter in MasterCam, so its good.

Gary Armitstead said:

John Caughey said:

Hey Gary,

Should be doable.

Dang now I’ve gotta clean out that room and finish my contest entry!

John

John,

I received an email this morning from Adela Zemkova at Shapeways. She said if I could convert my MC files to STL, they would be able to work with my parts. I have an STL converter in MasterCam, so its good.

Cool, you’re moving faster than I am!

This is the brass I’ll want to use;

https://www.riogrande.com/Product/casters-yellow-brass-chunks/706006

John

Hey John, here’s another angle to consider.

Since you’re casting from wax patterns, yes, the Shapeways avenue is great, at least for limited run parts. There are additional ways to skin the cat though, particularly for larger-quantity parts, where I don’t want to pay Shapeways for each (disposable) print. So, here’s some options.

  1. Shapeways makes the wax print, I send it to you.

  2. Shapeways makes the 3DP plastic parts, and I sprue them together and create a silicone mold from that. I make the wax casting of that multi-part master and send it to you. With each repeated order, I’m just re-casting some wax.

  3. Ditto, but I send the silicone mold to you, and you handle the wax casting.

  4. Same as #3, but I make my originals from styrene or whatever (vs. Shapeways); then make the mold, and cast the wax.

  5. Ditto, but I send the silicone mold to you, and you handle the wax casting.

As long as you define all the parameters for the wax “input” to your service, I think there are a variety of ways to make it happen.

Good for you taking this on!

===>Cliffy

John Caughey said:

David Maynard said:

Gee, Yunz say “cross-talk”, and we say “differential nomenclature”, so even the term for different terms is different in different industries. Man, this could get confusing.

I can’t afford $5 words.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

John

John, yea but them spensive woids does impress the snot outta folks.

David Maynard said:

John Caughey said:

David Maynard said:

Gee, Yunz say “cross-talk”, and we say “differential nomenclature”, so even the term for different terms is different in different industries. Man, this could get confusing.

I can’t afford $5 words.(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

John

John, yea but them spensive woids does impress the snot outta folks.

That 'splains it, I’ve been relying on my wits!(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)

I reached the end of my wits a long time ago…now I am just winging it.

Cliff Jennings said:

Hey John, here’s another angle to consider.

Since you’re casting from wax patterns, yes, the Shapeways avenue is great, at least for limited run parts. There are additional ways to skin the cat though, particularly for larger-quantity parts, where I don’t want to pay Shapeways for each (disposable) print. So, here’s some options.

  1. Shapeways makes the wax print, I send it to you.

  2. Shapeways makes the 3DP plastic parts, and I sprue them together and create a silicone mold from that. I make the wax casting of that multi-part master and send it to you. With each repeated order, I’m just re-casting some wax.

  3. Ditto, but I send the silicone mold to you, and you handle the wax casting.

  4. Same as #3, but I make my originals from styrene or whatever (vs. Shapeways); then make the mold, and cast the wax.

  5. Ditto, but I send the silicone mold to you, and you handle the wax casting.

As long as you define all the parameters for the wax “input” to your service, I think there are a variety of ways to make it happen.

Good for you taking this on!

===>Cliffy

Cliffy sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner.

I’m trained to make vulcanized rubber molds, I cut out the masters (cast in metal) with a scalpel blade and then inject with a wax pot. For me to do it the way I know would add close to $800 to me just for the waxes. When I heard Shapeways would print wax, I hoped that a wax print would be cheaper for you to get made. I can also burnout plastic, but I’m not liking the surface you get and that would be replicated. On our wax carvings the soft flame of an alcohol lamp would polish the surface or I also used a wax solvent to finger polish areas. I know these methods work. I already have enough invested in this…

Any way you can get me a wax that’s ready to cast, I’m all for. However my arthritic hands must decline production and fiddly work.

I want final call on the casting sprue. I will build the casting trees.

Being urban you should be able to find good used tools.

Good news, I changed a birthday wish into a shop wish I will be getting a Magnetic Tumbler that will polish all the inaccessible areas. It won’t smooth lines or imperfections, but will make them shiny! This also removes the casting remnants.Machining of some surfaces might be required, we’ll learn some as we go.

John

Update;

Talked with an electrician today, he will be out early next week to present an estimate and set the start date to wire up my shop…

I am also adding a tumbling service to clean and pre-polish your castings.

John

John Caughey said:

Update;

Talked with an electrician today, he will be out early next week to present an estimate and set the start date to wire up my shop…

I am also adding a tumbling service to clean and pre-polish your castings.

John

Well my manners suffered when that idiot called back a week later to tell me he was called RIGHT AFTER my call with a better job. He won’t be doing my job after all!!! Bless his heart he did offer another name…

First I want to call the company that referred me to him and advise them of how bad they look because of him!

10 days lost… would you trust a 3rd referral or start fresh?

Arrrggghhhh

Must cool off to find good karma…

John