Victor Smith said:Getting back to Camels and suchlike, when I was in prep (elementary private boarding) school in the '50s, I built a plastic kit of an SE5A. One of my teachers told me he had flown the real thing in the Great War ...Quote:Yeah, so was the Mosquito, dam thing was made out of cheap plywood ...
"Spitfires were flimsy wooden aircraft ... "
And I doubt the person who wrote the Spitfire story had ever heard of Mosquitos … or Swordfish
Steve Featherkile said:
Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not. Either way, it gives me pause. BTW, I spoke to Elvis last night…
(http://www.littlestuffedbull.com/images/comics/elvisspank.jpg)
:lol:
Chris Vernell said:Victor Smith said:Getting back to Camels and suchlike, when I was in prep (elementary private boarding) school in the '50s, I built a plastic kit of an SE5A. One of my teachers told me he had flown the real thing in the Great War ...Quote:Yeah, so was the Mosquito, dam thing was made out of cheap plywood ...
"Spitfires were flimsy wooden aircraft ... "And I doubt the person who wrote the Spitfire story had ever heard of Mosquitos … or Swordfish
Chris Vernell said:
Victor Smith said:
Quote:
"Spitfires were flimsy wooden aircraft … "Yeah, so was the Mosquito, dam thing was made out of cheap plywood …
Getting back to Camels and suchlike, when I was in prep (elementary private boarding) school in the '50s, I built a plastic kit of an SE5A. One of my teachers told me he had flown the real thing in the Great War … And I doubt the person who wrote the Spitfire story had ever heard of Mosquitos … or Swordfish
(http://www.combatreform2.com/swordfishdropstorpedotointersectwithbattleship.jpg)
Ah the Swordfish, the plane that crippled the Bismark. Funny thing, Germans had the worlds most advanced anti aircraft weapondry on the Bismark, designed to be a match against their own superior air technology, unfortunatly the English were still flying these WW1 throwbacks, that defied every assumtion the Germans had built into there anti aircraft defences, which were designed for aircraft dive bombers like Stukas which were for then relatively high speed dive bombers, but the dam Swordfish when put into a dive had so much drag from the bedpost wing framing and wiring would just hang there in the air falling at a speed that was much slower than the german anti-aircraft targeting was designed to respond to, so every time they fired on them they invariabley shot ahead of or behind the swordfish, hitting one took a lot of finnesse from the gunner. Its one of the reasons the plane lasted till the very end of the war. It was also flyable off of even the smallest carrier without the aid of a catapult, being in a high wind virtually a VTOL craft on a carrier. Neat stuff.
I thot it was because the Swordfish flew so low that the Germans couldn’t depress their guns enough to hit them. Either way, the basic tenant of the story is true. The German’s guns were too advance to hit the mighty Sword!
Didn’t the cooks finally beat off the swordfishes by coming up on the main deck with buckets of potatoes and throwing potatoes at the swordfishes?
After one particular bad Monsoon in the Tonkin, we had buckets and buckets of flying fish to clean out of the gun tubs and safety nets.
But no swordfish. 
There was a story during the Battle of Norway where a squadron of low flying Swordfish flying along the coastline after a mission were jumped by a squadron of Messerschmitts, the English pilots to avoid the Germans grabbed the deck and flew straight into one of the narrow Fjords, the Germans pursued them in, all the Swordfishes made it back to base, but not one of the German planes made it out of the Fjord…dont know how true this is, I read it in an aviation book long ago.
I understand the Luftwaffe museum at Gatow, near Berlin, has a Me109 and a FW190. Although she cannot understand why I want to see them, my wife is a good sport and has agreed we’ll have a go at finding it.
You blokes are whetting my appetite!
Well, they did make a “target rich environment”…:lol:
Me or BF?
Curmudgeon said:I heard this is how French Fries were invented :lol: Ralph
Didn't the cooks finally beat off the swordfishes by coming up on the main deck with buckets of potatoes and throwing potatoes at the swordfishes?
Victor Smith said:One of the other reasons it lasted was that the planes that were designed to replace it were a crock ... While we're on stringbags, how about Faith, Hope and Charity?
Its one of the reasons the plane lasted till the very end of the war. It was also flyable off of even the smallest carrier without the aid of a catapult, being in a high wind virtually a VTOL craft on a carrier. Neat stuff.
http://www.killifish.f9.co.uk/Malta%20WWII/Faith%20Hope%20&%20Charity.htm
I was only vaguely aware of this story. Amazing stuff.
Found this, looks like another interesting read
http://www.amazon.com/Faith-Hope-Charity-Defence-Fortunes/dp/1841450561
I just finished “Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo” a very good read, and am currently reading “PT 109”
Well, at the start of Big 2, the US had as front line aeroplanes the Brewster Buffalo, The P-40, both already obsolete, the P-39, a never was, the F4F, underpowered, but could take a lot of punishment. The F3F, a biplane, had only just been replaced by the F4F. The Dauntless was so slow that it could barely get out of its own way. The Devastator was clearly outclassed, even though it had only been in the Fleet for just 5 years.
Curmudgeon said:Dunno. I think the 190 is a later model, possibly an A9.
Me or BF?
Steve Featherkile said:The ghosts of Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Hiryu and Mikuma thank you for your contribution. Unfortunately for them, they couldn't get out of its way.
The Dauntless was so slow that it could barely get out of its own way.
Steve Featherkile said:
The P-40, … already obsolete,
General Chennault and his Flying Tigers might claim that they proved this wasn’t necessaraly so…
(http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/rossi24.jpg)
Dave said:
The ghosts of Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Hiryu and Mikuma thank you for your contribution. Unfortunately for them, they couldn't get out of its way.
Vic said:In the first instance, all of the Zeros were on the deck, having just splashed the Devastators of Torpedo 8, and therefore not available to splash the dive bombers.
General Chennault and his Flying Tigers might claim that they proved this wasn't necessarily so...
In the second instance, Gen. Chennault said, “Never get involved in a turning fight with a Zero, dive through their formation, hit one or two, and then get away…”
Got mit uns. Emmanuel.
With the right pilot(s), there is always a way.
Steve Featherkile said:
In the second instance, Gen. Chennault said, "Never get involved in a turning fight with a Zero, dive through their formation, hit one or two, and then get away..."With the right pilot(s), there is always a way.
This was mostly to avoid placing the pilot in a situation where he would be easily outnumbered, Chennault wasnt as concerned about the P-40 being inferior as he was more concerned about having his heavily outnumbered pilots getting too brave, picking a dogfight and ending up being overwhelmed by superior Japanese numbers and getting shot down, losing the pilot, and more importantly his precious plane! He was determined to keep his force as intact as possible and that ment hit and run attacks were the prefered strategy, the P-40 couldnt climb as fast as the Zero and wasn’t as manuverable in a dogfight but in flat out flight and particularly in a dive, it was faster, so his men could dive pick off a few meatballs and then keep diving putting a safer distance between them and the Japanese, this technic was very effective.
But what they manage to do is take what many considered an “obsolete” plane, modified it with their own improvements, and then held there own against “superior” Japanese Zeros and other planes. Many of Chennaults “modifications” were taken by the manufacturer and integrated into newer models, these modifed planes were produced during the early days of the war helping to fill a critical gap in American and British air forces around the world until newer planes could be brought on line. this “obsolete” design was mass produced until Nov. 1944.
