Welded joints solve the rivet counting issues altogether! 
John Le Forestier said:
I’ve repaired a few Aristo 0-4-0’s split gear plastic bushing thingies on the drive axles. This is just plain old EXTREMELY bad desogn, to use these insane little plastic tubes to hold together, and in quarter, the two halves of a DRIVE axle, for heaven’s sake! Whoever thought it’d be OK to take a drive axle and cut it in half like that anyway? It’s just amazing to me the Aristo releases them into the market with these obvious and quite serious flaws.
It’s the same old design that USA Trains still uses today.
(http://ovgrs.editme.com/files/Fixes/Gear01.jpg)
While USA Trains continues to deliver new diesels with the same old cracked gear sleeve design, Aristo-Craft has a new motor block that has eliminated the push-in wheel axles. I believe the new 0-4-0’s also have the new drive mechanism and a Plug and Play Socket.
Actually, USAT changed the design a bit, they changed the knurling at the ends of the axles, supposedly to cure the splitting problem. It did not cure it. So if you are told that the loco has the “new” axles, don’t get your hopes up. I just routinely put tubing on mine whenever I open the loco.
http://www.elmassian.com/trains/motive-power-mods-aamp-tips/usat-motive-power/split-axles
The Aristo changes are nothing helpful unfortunately. The axle ends are still tapered, and the diesels are unchanged except for a new wheel contour (which by the way is great). The steam locos have a metal insert pressed into the wheel, with the corresponding taper.
It’s well known that the slipping issue is not fixed. I just spun a driver on my brand new consolidation the other day.
Regards, Greg
From memory, the gears were given away free of charge several years ago. Seems the proprietor could not believe the demand and so put a dollar figure on them. Why fix the problem when you can sell spares that do the same thing? People keep buying the locomotives and the issue is so well known I doubt few would not have heard of the problem. I only had two locomotives from the manufacturer and both had all axle gears cracked. My take, leave them on the dealer’s shelf.
Greg Elmassian said:Can't they be regauged?
Not junk, the motor blocks themselves are fine. The wheels are not in gage and the flanges are smaller than usual, so you might have problems.
Personally, the smaller flanges would appeal to me. I hate the ridiculously oversized flanges on most large scale stuff, it scales out to about 6 inches of flange! The modified Annie I bought from Barry has the flanges turned down and I love it.
Ray Dunakin said:They can, Ray, and I do it routinely while I'm either reinforcing or repairing the split gear bushing.
Can't they be regauged?
I take the measure of the too-narrow check gauge, and then for a suitable spacer I slip a little disk of styrene down flat into to the bottom of the hole.
Meanwhile I’ve done the brass tube trick with JB weld on the outside, and let it set overnight. The following day, more JB Weld goes into the hole and the axles are installed into the gear, the wheels quartered and checked for parallel, and the whole gooey mess left for another 24 hrs.
This mud pie fix of mine results in a very strong wheel/axle set. I’ve never had to go back to them even after 6-7 years of hard operations.
I agree with Greg, the Aristo motor blocks are very reliable performers.
There is an adage that a piece of equipment will last as long as its weakest part. There will of course always be a weakest part somewhere.
But when you do a repair you can take that weakest part and try to make it one of the strongest. At least that way, the next time you have to do a repair it won’t be on the same part, and hopefully not on such a critical one.
On my beloved Hartland locos the weakest part, so the first to give way, has been the handrails! How’s that for an easy fix?
Big deal, huh?
In fact, when I let little kids play with my trains, a thing I do regularly at train shows, I remove both handrails and bells beforehand. The kids don’t know or care, and at the end of the day I still have my parts in my pocket and ready to return to their places…
Ask me how I learned this… 
:rolleyes:
I opened up one of my LGB F-7’s to replace the well-worn skate-shoes and found two out of four cracked gear sleeves.
I have had Bachmann gears crack.
I have had Aristo gears crack.
I see reports of USA gears cracking (I have had to replace entire drive blocks).
Seems to me the design is inherently a “bad one” and all manufacturers are using it. Or perhaps it is a planned “sacrificial lamb” designed to take the abuse saving the more expensive parts of the drive train. Either way, I will continue to buy from all brands assuming they make a model I like. I have received a great deal of enjoyment, and heartache from all of them.
If I took the advice offered by some and left these units on the dealers shelves what exactly would I be running? I’m not going to become a machinist and make my own drives; while I admire those who do it’s just not my thing. I simply replace the $12.00 gear and move on.
Mark,
my point is that we keep buying locomotives even though we expect that they will be defective. What incentive is there for the manufacturer to fix the issue when sales are continuing and apparently the defect is not having an impact on those sales? The issue of Bachmann cracked gears was only found after manufacture and not, I believe in a current production run. The Connie cracked gears were found in stock that had been wharehoused for many years. The early Bachmann ‘Big Hauler’ gears were found to be defective and the manufacturer upgraded the drive. Many years later, the Centennial American and Mogul gears began to crack. I do not know if Bachmann corrected the issue with the recent production run, though time will tell.
Charlie still has not corrected the gear issue - just how hard could it be as the drives use a common gear/axle insulating part. The fix would be relatively simple in engineering terms.
You found cracked LGB gears. I am thinking that the gears were cracked on the idler gear, but only on the sleeve part of the gear and not completely through the gear, thus the loco was still usable. If you had not dismantled the drive you would not have known of the problem. I have found new old stock LGB idler gears from the late 1980s with the sleeve portion cracked. I believe the sleeve portion was too thin. Most likely the case with the F-7 gears.Tim Brien said:Buying stuff with that expectation is also acceptance that it would/could/will be defective. One could call it "the resigned slow learner" syndrome. ;) :)
Mark, my point is that we keep buying locomotives even though we expect that they will be defective. .............
HJ,
that is my point. We accept an item is defective and still purchase it. Why would the manufacturer spend money correcting a problem that we accept as normal production? I doubt that few have not heard of the cracked gear symptom, but then we still hear of those (thankfully far less these days) who purchase a new old stock Bachmann Connie, at a greatly reduced sale price, that are amazed that their new locomotive sits on the track with the motor running but no movement. Where have these people been the last six or seven years?
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:That's my point Hans...Tim Brien said:Buying stuff with that expectation is also acceptance that it would/could/will be defective. One could call it "the resigned slow learner" syndrome. ;) :)
Mark, my point is that we keep buying locomotives even though we expect that they will be defective. .............
LGB…Sleaves cracked
USA…Sleaves cracked
Aristo…Sleaves cracked
Bachmann…Sleaves cracked
So if these brands all exhibit cracked/potentially cracked gear sleeves/shafts which companies do you buy you locomotives from?
Seriously, who makes a quality train model today?
Tim Brien said:I understand Tim...My fault, my apologies.
Mark, my point is that we keep buying locomotives even though we expect that they will be defective. What incentive is there for the manufacturer to fix the issue when sales are continuing and apparently the defect is not having an impact on those sales? ...
I simply tire of the “Brand X makes junk” almost always paired with “Brand X now wants how much for that”?!
Your Bachmann example is a perfect one…10 wheelers were junk, and CHEAP! The quality went up and with each new generation, so did the price. Now we have Annies with upgraded gearboxes costing multitudes more than the original. Good for me, but not for some.
Next up is the C-19, by all early acounts she’ll be a sweet running beastie! Rumor has it all drive-train issues mentioned about the Annie, Connie, K-27, etc. have been considered and listened to. How many price complaints have you heard?
Yes, when I pay $150.00 for an FA unit from company ‘X’, I expect I will need to replace a gear/motor/axle…I really do. When I pay $600.00 for an F unit by company ‘Y’, I don’t expect to. I usually find out I’m right.
You pretty much get what you pay for.
Spell’n sure ain’t good tunite!
Mark,
apart from the K-27 (too big for my railroad clearances), I have purchased basically every model made by Bachmann from the Anniversary onwards. I lusted after the first release Shay but fortunately waited for the later version. Of all my Bachmann locomotives, the only ones that I run are my rebuilt Anniversaries. simple rebuilding to remove production line issues, results in a very reliable locomotive.
I have purchased HLW but find them very toylike (Kalamazoo heritage?), though they are built to last. USA Trains, well, I had two and both were defective, so never again. I have had Aristo-Craft (loved the old C-16), but found in general that they were overly heavy for normal usage. Just how many pieces of rolling stock did Lewis think these things were going to pull? I have since shed any Aristo (not to my taste, though the old gear driven C-16 was a good loco, I had twelve of them).
I have lots of LGB. Quality is more than actual price. The new, soon to be released B'mann C-19 will be more expensive than any non-sound LGB locomotive released to date. It will look nice and run well, but and that is the $64,000 question - what have they done to stuff it up? No doubt they learned from the K-27 fiasco and the retooled Climax and Forney and hopefully will have a fault free model. Alas, given the anticipated recommended retail price, I will certainly not be buying any overpriced models out of China. I prefer to buy 'used' German made models knowing that they have a proven heritage for reliability and build quality.Tim Brien said:God I hope it won't be that much! :D
...The new, soon to be released B'mann C-19 will be more expensive than any non-sound LGB locomotive released to date...that is the $64,000 question...
Got the Micro-Mark Catalog this last weekend - they list the price of the C-19 at $998.50. Since they are not always the lowest cost, I’m sure the street price will end up more in the range of what the K’s are going for now - around 600.
Right now I’ve seen the C-19 at $825-$850. I’m sure that will drop some with time.
Ralph
Mark V said:
So if these brands all exhibit cracked/potentially cracked gear sleeves/shafts which companies do you buy you locomotives from?Seriously, who makes a quality train model today?
BRAWA (no longer producing IIm), they had a “small problem” since Aristo was the co-producer (supplier) of the drive portion (motor, gear train etc. etc.) and the crappy motor they used was an absolute disaster when used in DCC mode. Since I have a lot of “dumb luck” mine was delivered after they made the corrections. the corrections consist of a Maxon motor and cog-belt transmission between motor and input shaft of the gear train. Runs as well as a Swiss watch (the replacement drive was designed and tested by a Swiss company and BRAWA went with that version). Absolutely high class stuff, but not intended for people who don’t appreciate the finer things; those with the larger clumsy hands and a short memory/attention span tend to break all manner of stuff on the BRAWA models.
KISS (so far so good)
LGB so far so good (stuff that was produced while they were still in Nürnberg).
Since I got all the engines I’ll every need to run my railway scheme, I’m even prepared to baby the stuff along if it becomes necessary, until then I just do regular maintenance - just like on any other machine. 
I have seen very few LGB’s have drive train issues beyond the normal worn out skates and wheels. Worst was stripped mogul idler gears, but after years of use, thats kind of expected. I think the split axle sleeves in the F unit was the exception and not the norm, atleast for German production. I have had my SP Black Widow units appart to remove the skates and didnt see any issues with any of the axle gears. Guess if OEM’s didnt have gearing issues, NWSL would be out of business by now! Even the high doller brass models have had their share of repeated gear/gearbox failures in the smaller scales. They say in China, the factory will gradualy ramp quality down to the point everybody starts to bitch, then bring it up just a tad. Followed by thier favorite saying “Nothing personal, its only business”
Mike Toney said:Sounds like the old Muntz TV (1950 era). The joke was that they built a fairly decent pre-production set and before going into production they started taking out components until the set stopped working - they replaced that last part and released the resulting TV to production. As I recall, if you didn't want to mortgage your house to have a good TV you had to settle for the likes of a Muntz, Ahhh, the good old days.
I have seen very few LGB's have drive train issues beyond the normal worn out skates and wheels. Worst was stripped mogul idler gears, but after years of use, thats kind of expected. I think the split axle sleeves in the F unit was the exception and not the norm, atleast for German production. I have had my SP Black Widow units appart to remove the skates and didnt see any issues with any of the axle gears. Guess if OEM's didnt have gearing issues, NWSL would be out of business by now! Even the high doller brass models have had their share of repeated gear/gearbox failures in the smaller scales. They say in China, the factory will gradualy ramp quality down to the point everybody starts to bitch, then bring it up just a tad. Followed by thier favorite saying "Nothing personal, its only business"
Walt
Now TV’s are as cheap as chips. The sad thing is there is still very little worth watching.