From the AristoCraft website.
http://www.aristocraft.com/vbulletinforums/showthread.php?t=17888
Only one complaint. So there.
Vic. The (so called) “conspiracy” comes about when the SPIN starts in order to cover up, or make light of, or simply deny there is a the screw up.
Well, that’s funny, since Paul B. and I both contacted and talked to Aristo within a day of each other, and this was phone conversations. This was before that was posted also.
I count 2 right there.
By the way, over the weekend, another new owner confirmed the same measurements that Paul, RJ, and I all have on our locos. This is consistent on every loco measured so far… oh, I missed another, Ron Bodnar has confirmed those measurements.
Greg
p.s. Marty, you said:
“I just care about you and if you are the only one I know of who got ,stuck, Then there is a chance you may swallow some of the tiny parts.”
I just have one question: Have you ever met someone stupid enough to believe a statement like the above? After all the times you have called me names in public forums?
That’s the last time I will mention it, but don’t insult my and other’s intelligence by trying to be witty or clever, it does not work.
At your urging, I found the right web site for reporting this danger: http://www.cpsc.gov/talk.html … thanks for giving me the impetus to look it up. I’ll be sure to tell Lewis and Scott you inspired me, since you are so concerned.
This thread is beginning to sound very MLS like. While it started with a some intelligent observations, it has degenerated into a cat fight. I would encourage all of you gentlemen to cease with the emotional language, name calling, bashing, etc. Many of us here fled MLS because of the negative and often aggressive nature of the posts there. We do not want to see it here.
This hobby web site is spposed to be used to share information in a friendly way. After all a hobby is supposed to be a happy and relaxing pastime. I have a met a lot of the people that frequently post here. They do not behave this way in person and probably do not appreciate the way this thread has degenerated.
I can only agree with everything Paul has written.
Agreed Paul, I watch both groups/sites, but don’t post anything much anymore, because of all the negativity generated, especially over there! More mellow here, and just post things that I would like to share with people interested in the hobby, not flame wars, and personal attacks, nothing positive gained by doing negative things. Regal
What he said.
There’s a fine line running any website, of allowing open talk on any subject, versus not allowing any off topic discussion. I’ve tried to let things take their own course, but a recent influx of both people, and a general “I want to bitch about this” attitude of a lot of the posts, has grown tiring.
There IS a difference between “this thing doesn’t scale/measure out” and “The company never gets anything right”. If you can’t tell the difference between those two statements, then maybe you belong on another website.
Well I have some good news on the Consolidation,
A post from Lewis Polk and a call from Scott Polk today (I had previous conversations with Scott and Navin about the wheel flange problem) has confirmed:
They are going to resolve the issue, thin the flanges to proper dimensions and they are going to China to make sure it’s done.
I have to say: “Whoopee”!
Nice to see a quick response to the problem and what an improvement this will make. Even the older steam loks that did not appear to have a problem really did, in an overly narrow back to back, and now that problem will be gone also. Much better running through switches.
Going to save me a lot of time and effort, since I was going to machine all the drivers on my steamers.
Thanks Aristo!
Greg
Good news Greg. See it does help to bring up problems and that the manufacturer is willing to fix the problem. Again, good news!
Good work Greg!
Aristo-Craft usually do try to improve their products and correct any obvious problems.
I can also add and remove a locomotive from a consist without having to re-link as a result of your suggestion during the alpha testing of the Revolution.
Thanks!
Greg Elmassian said:
p.s. Marty, you said: "I just care about you and if you are the only one I know of who got ,stuck, Then there is a chance you may swallow some of the tiny parts."I just have one question: Have you ever met someone stupid enough to believe a statement like the above? After all the times you have called me names in public forums?
Hi Greg.
Do you have a link to a website where Mr Polk has put his promise into writing?
On another site, Greg showed photographs of the ‘new, improved’ method of retaining the wheel to the tapered axle. Curiously, the inner surface of the bushing was coated in Loctite. The intent of the bushing is to ‘maintain’ consistent back to back measurements, as the method originally used was very inconsistent in assembly due the taper machining in the relatively soft cast wheel. The degree of machining determined how far the wheel would position on the tapered axle (usually too far in, causing the wheelset to be seriously undergauge).
Harking back to the original Mallet/Mikado fiasco days when wheels consistently repositioned on the axle causing serious ‘out of quarter’ problems, it was stated that Loctite was NOT used on the taper but only on the retaining screw threads. The taper was the torque retaining method and not the adhesive quality of the Loctite. The assembly line was blamed for incorrect assembly technique. Seems the good ole’ days have returned and Loctite has now returned to glue the wheel to the axle.
The engineering used in supplying the splined bush is excellent engineering practice, when used in conjunction with a correspondingly well designed wheel standard. Remember the talk several years ago at AC about complying with wheel standards. Well they got half of it right in retaining consistent back to back measurements within gauge. Now with the decision to fully implement standards, it is back to the drawing board to manufacture wheel tread/flange standards that work in conjunction with ‘standard’ back to back’ measurements. After so many years of development the issue of wheel standards was overlooked. Makes you wonder that when testing new development projects, does the tester really know what he is looking at. Reminds me of the ‘rose glasses’ syndrome of another manufacturer. Just because the proud dad says his baby is beautiful does not take away the fact that it is downright ugly! Just in case of misconception I am making an analogy to an ugly baby only and NOT to the newly released Consolidation. I believe it to be an excellent product that given a little more development and complying with standards, could have been and eventually WILL become a market success.
The days of the ‘toy’ market philosophy have passed. Manufacturers need to step up to the new paradign where consumers are more discerning and will not accept less. The colour of the box does not now determine the consumer’s willingness to purchase. Look to the MSRP prices of the other manufacturer in 1/22.5 and 1/20.3 scale. The smaller scale still is priced for the market with reasonable quality commensurate with the pricing level. The larger scale the prices have skyrocketed upwards with each new production, with the pricing level not comensurate with the degree of complexity nor the degree of quality. Exactly who is the mystery figure making all these wrong decisions?
Plural Tim. Plural.
Who are … 
Tony, I have had a number of dealings with Scott Polk. His personal word is good enough for me. He has promised things to me personally before and never let me down.
Tim, thanks for the insight on the differences in maintaining tolerances in steel, vs. pot metal alloy. That’s the first explanation I have heard that makes sense why this should be a better situation to resist slipping. I have also noticed that the ends of the axles are not shiny and incosistent as they used to be, but look like they have been lapped to a smooth, consistent finish.
I’ll get a picture of that and put it on my site (and I can put up more pictures here if people are interested).
Regards, Greg
Thank you Greg.
I look forward to your faith being justified.
Tim Brien said:
On another site, Greg showed photographs of the 'new, improved' method of retaining the wheel to the tapered axle. Curiously, the inner surface of the bushing was coated in Loctite. The intent of the bushing is to 'maintain' consistent back to back measurements, as the method originally used was very inconsistent in assembly due the taper machining in the relatively soft cast wheel. The degree of machining determined how far the wheel would position on the tapered axle (usually too far in, causing the wheelset to be seriously undergauge).Harking back to the original Mallet/Mikado fiasco days when wheels consistently repositioned on the axle causing serious ‘out of quarter’ problems, it was stated that Loctite was NOT used on the taper but only on the retaining screw threads. The taper was the torque retaining method and not the adhesive quality of the Loctite. The assembly line was blamed for incorrect assembly technique. Seems the good ole’ days have returned and Loctite has now returned to glue the wheel to the axle.
The engineering used in supplying the splined bush is excellent engineering practice, when used in conjunction with a correspondingly well designed wheel standard. Remember the talk several years ago at AC about complying with wheel standards. Well they got half of it right in retaining consistent back to back measurements within gauge. Now with the decision to fully implement standards, it is back to the drawing board to manufacture wheel tread/flange standards that work in conjunction with ‘standard’ back to back’ measurements. After so many years of development the issue of wheel standards was overlooked. Makes you wonder that when testing new development projects, does the tester really know what he is looking at. Reminds me of the ‘rose glasses’ syndrome of another manufacturer. Just because the proud dad says his baby is beautiful does not take away the fact that it is downright ugly! Just in case of misconception I am making an analogy to an ugly baby only and NOT to the newly released Consolidation. I believe it to be an excellent product that given a little more development and complying with standards, could have been and eventually WILL become a market success.
The days of the ‘toy’ market philosophy have passed. Manufacturers need to step up to the new paradign where consumers are more discerning and will not accept less. The colour of the box does not now determine the consumer’s willingness to purchase. Look to the MSRP prices of the other manufacturer in 1/22.5 and 1/20.3 scale. The smaller scale still is priced for the market with reasonable quality commensurate with the pricing level. The larger scale the prices have skyrocketed upwards with each new production, with the pricing level not comensurate with the degree of complexity nor the degree of quality. Exactly who is the mystery figure making all these wrong decisions?
And Greg, Great post and thanks for pointing out the things that would make some of us say !!! No to bad QC,
But on a positive note it’s great to see them finally standing behind their product, Good to see times are finally changing.
Nicky…
And yes I’m feeling better every day.
I am wondering if any or all of the problems with this loco have been addressed ? I have been looking at them since they came out and feel I have a fair deal in sight for one , and would like to know if there have been changes made ?
If so , is there anyway to tell the new and improved from the initial run ?
Thanks for any assistance.
Dave Marconi said:
I am wondering if any or all of the problems with this loco have been addressed ? I have been looking at them since they came out and feel I have a fair deal in sight for one , and would like to know if there have been changes made ? If so , is there anyway to tell the new and improved from the initial run ?Thanks for any assistance.
No new run as of yet and based on the fact they are not selling I wouldnt hold your breath for the next run.
I sold off all but one that seems to be doing ok but not perfect. Heres a Video Charlie posted
about his loco and the ones I sold preformed about the same. New wheels were promised but they
are a no show. It’s really a shame that all the dealers are giving them away at low prices cause they cant
sell them I believe because of all the issues.
Nick
Thank you for the heads up Nick. Really a shame as I was looking to add one to my line.
Unfortunately, it’s taking Aristo a lot longer that you would expect.
A new Dash 9 has a new wheel contour, so they are doing what they said they would do, just SLOWLY… supposedly if the new wheel contour works well (and it looks like a vast improvement) then the oft-promised stainless steel wheels for diesels may appear.
After that, the improved steamer wheels should happen, but this will be more difficult, since they are cast pot metal, and might not hold a thinner flange.
Unfortunately, a new aspect of cheapening has surfaced… the 2 pound lead weights ( three used to come free, then 1 and the others cheap, and then they jacked the price) turned into 1 pound zinc weights, have disappeared from the Dash 9, now it’s a stack of cheap steel plates even lighter than the “half weight” zinc.
Jeeze…
Greg