Large Scale Central

Amtrak derailment at DuPont, Wa

Prototypes
#21

Will be interesting to see what may come out of those two items,

“A downward grade coming into that curve, you’ve got that working against you. You’ve got to make a pretty good estimate of how to get that down from 81 to 30,” Hiatt said of the track, located near Mounts Road outside of DuPont. “From what I’ve heard, there were several complaints by engineers about this.’

and

However, an official who was briefed on the investigation but not authorized to discuss it publicly told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity that preliminary signs indicate the Amtrak train may have struck something on the track before going off the rails. No other evidence Monday has indicated anything was on the tracks.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/train-derails-from-bridge-onto-interstate-5-near-olympia/

And preparation pays off;

His department has conducted tabletop exercises involving “train cars dangling over the freeway.”

People say, “Oh, that’s never going to happen. And here we are,” Sumerlin said.

#22

Forrest,

I doubt it was because of speed. Everyone is always quick to blame the crew. Amtrak has been qualifying crews on this new section of track now for over a month. I’m hearing rumors that maybe a hi-rail truck was on the track, but who really knows. The facts will come out in time. Right now everyone is an armchair quarterback.

#23

I have no evidence from which to assume or conclude anything and therefore am not, am pretty much simply reporting what is out there and making note of it now so as to have it to compare the eventual findings to - how did reality end up comparing to the initial speculation.

#24

I've seen a few photos that show the apparent area of the derailment, heading into the curve. I was surprised that there was no visible damage at all to the rails in that area.

 

Considering the circumstances and the massive damage, it's amazing that the loss of life was not far higher, and that no one was killed on the freeway.

 

 

#25

According to news this morning the data on the recorder in the REAR locomotive the train was doing 80mph at the time of the crash.

#26

All the news did yesterday was “speculate”. Different stories from different channels and reporters. You don’t know what to believe.

NTSB is slowly letting information out this morning.

#27

Latest gouge:

  1. Speed, 81mph, per event recorder, in a 30 zone. There is a downhill approach to that curve. Many locomotive engineers complained about having to bleed off speed on that downhill.

  2. Report by someone “familiar with the investigation, but not authorized to speak,” indicates something was on the track, causing/contributing to crash.

Whether any of this is true, only time will tell.

#28

Be interesting to know if the train was equipped with cameras, that would answer a great deal as to whether anything like an obstacle contributed to the accident.

#29

There are supposedly cameras on these locomotives.

#30

I believe that these new locomotives have both forward and inward facing cameras.

#31

Railpictures dot net last night: http://www.railpictures.net/photo/641592/

I had 3 friends as passengers, in addition to the engineer. It took some time but eventually I was informed that all of my friends survived, but were hospitalized with pretty serious injuries. It should be noted, there were two people in the cab. Both survived and were taken to local hospitals.

…

Hearing the conductor make his emergency call was very scary, made worse by the knowledge of all the people I knew on board. Please keep the crew, passengers and loved ones of those affected in your prayers.

Please keep any comments positive and avoid speculation on the cause. Lets wait until the investigation is complete.

#32

When Positive Train Control is being discussed in news about Amtrak crash, keep some things in mind:

“Amtrak and the FCC
What bad wireless spectrum policy has to do with the recent, deadly train derailment.”
May 2015.
"But following the Amtrak derailment, people are suddenly conscious of the fact that the nation’s policies on access to the airwaves will impact almost everything in their lives.

So is Amtrak’s claim that spectrum access is a factor in this disaster legitimate? The answer is yes and no. Amtrak asked for exclusive, and expensive, spectrum, and this request—while puzzling—highlights deep structural problems with how our government has parceled out and regulated spectrum in the past.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2015/05/amtrak_train_derailment_positive_train_control_and_wireless_spectrum_policy.html

and

"

4 June 2017
Positive train control: is the US on track?
By Eva Grey

Another critical drawback is the issue of integration: PTC deployment requires various technical components to work together, many of them being ‘first generation technologies’ specifically designed and developed for PTC. The lengthy testing of these components takes time, which slows down delivery. Limitations in radio bandwidth and incomplete radio system requirements also played a big role.

“Interoperability sits upon the foundation of a huge, shared database with information the different railroads need to update and access regularly,” leading PTC expert and ARR consultant Jeff Young, wrote in an editorial.

“This includes information like the precise locations of thousands of railroad switches and wayside signals. This has been an enormous challenge, because rail operators need to keep this information updated even as switch and signal location changes are constantly changing,” he adds.

https://www.railway-technology.com/features/featurepositive-train-control-is-the-us-on-track-5825798/

#33

There is a relevant article in this railway trade journal, and that’s all I can get away with saying about it here,
http://www.railwayage.com/

#34

Staying out of the conversation but would like to also note these are Talgo cars in the consist which (probably) has NOTHING too do with what happened.

This post has been edited by: Rooster

#35

If anything I would say that the Talgo cars increased survival. They are semi-permanently coupled and might have helped keep more of them upright and together.

#36

A Google Plus friend brought this to my attention.

[QUOTE]A Cruel Irony’: 2 Killed in Amtrak Crash Were Rail Fans Eager for Maiden Run

By JULIE BOSMANDEC. 19, 2017

So quite a few of the people who boarded Train No. 501 on Monday for the maiden run were rail fans. And when the train crashed off the newly refurbished rails south of Tacoma with 77 passengers aboard, at least two of the three people who were killed in the accident came from that world.

James Hamre, 61, was a train enthusiast to his marrow, the son and grandson of railway employees, who spent his retirement promoting train travel. Zack Willhoite, 35, his close friend, worked for a transportation agency in Washington State and volunteered his free time for a regional rail advocacy group. Mr. Hamre’s family and Mr. Willhoite’s employer confirmed their deaths.

“It’s a cruel irony,” said Malcolm Kenton, a writer and consultant in the passenger rail industry who knew both men.[/QUOTE]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/19/us/amtrak-derailment-victims-washington.html

#37

For those that live outside the PNW, the PNW railfan community is a tight knit group of railfan and railroaders. A lot of us know some or all of the people on the train. One person I know has a broken pelvis and other injuries.

#38

Craig Townsend said:

One person I know has a broken pelvis and other injuries.

Pass along that we wish healing and comfort to them.

#39

It seems to be the week for inaugural train troubles - from a Google Plus friend in India;

Train of Delhi Metro’s Magenta line derails, crashes into wall even before inauguration

A trial run of a Metro train on the Magenta Line went off the rails.

IndiaToday.in | Posted by Bijin Jose
New Delhi, December 19, 2017 | UPDATED 19:43 IST

In an unfortunate turn of events, a trial run of a Metro train on the Magenta Line went off the rails (pun intended). The unmanned Metro train crashed into the wall of the Kalindi Kunj Metro depot.

The Kalkaji Mandir-Botanical Garden line of the Delhi Metro, which will reduce the travel time between Noida and south Delhi, will be inaugurated by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on December 25.

Also of interest with in it;

Metro’s new generation trains, which can run without drivers, will run on this section where an advanced Communication Based Train Control (CBTC) signalling technology that will facilitate movement of trains with a frequency of 90-100 seconds will also be pressed into service.

As a matter of fact, when the trains are in car shade they are operated manually. It remains unclear whether the train that crashed had a driver in it or not at the time of the accident.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/delhi-metro-crashes-magenta-line-kalindi-kunj-depot-pm-modi/1/1113629.html

#40

Forrest Scott Wood said:

It seems to be the week for inaugural train troubles - from a Google Plus friend in India;

Train of Delhi Metro’s Magenta line derails, crashes into wall even before inauguration

A trial run of a Metro train on the Magenta Line went off the rails.

A regular occurance with Indian Railways unfortunately…as for driverless trains over there…(Gulp!!)…

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/586-train-accidents-in-last-5-years-53-due-to-derailments/articleshow/60141578.cms

(see on the above the video…notice the army standing around doing nothing!)