Large Scale Central

AML Track Ties- Painting

Track and Trestles
#15

I’ve used armorall, in fact I’m probably one of the reasons it’s accepted now, since when I started using it, most people pooh poohed it.

One of my employees went to business school (MBA) with one of the Armorall executives, the key ingredient (it was invented in southern California to stop rot on the sidewalls of tires) was a plasticizer to keep things supple. The addition of UV protectant came later.

Some of the compounds that make plastic trim “black” again are just toppings to make things look better.

I’ve had very good luck the the Turtle Wax version of Armorall, in the florescent green bottle.

I also have a fair amount of the original formula, about 20 years old.

I’ve used a lot of products over the years and compared the results in long term testing.

Much of my track is 10 years old and not rotted. All Aristo.

Greg

#16

David Maynard said:

Korm, haven’t we all over the last 40 years?

Brittle? Hmmm that’s one way to put.

Or as dainty and fragile as a Dresdner figurine

#17

Korm Kormsen said:

Steve,
do you know, if that stuff just restores the look, or does it give back elasticy to brittle plastic?

(got hundreds of plastic cowboys and injuns, that became brittle, during the last forty years)

I really don’t know what to tell you about restoration of flexibility, Korm. Greg is the one who preaches about that, I was just echoing him. Perhaps he can join in.

#18

dieseldude . said:

In another thread (http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/22149/iron-island-rr-take-two) I mentioned that I’ve got some AML track ties that are starting to get a bit white from UV exposure. The track has been out for 4 years. I’m redoing the layout and thought it might be a good idea to paint the ties (Krylon Fusion) before reinstalling everything in order to keep them from disintegrating. I realize that AML has a warranty, but I think it might be better to prevent the ties from going bad rather that replacing all of them at a later date. What’s your experience with AML ties? Am I just going to prolong the inevitable? Thanks.

-Kevin.

Kevin,

I have the AMS code 250 (same as yours only narrow gauge) It was painted with Krylon camo brown

when installed (not Fuzion), some was installed in 2005 and the rest in 2007. Right now most of it is chalking and white, the nail heads and tie plate edges (these hold the rail to the tie) can literally be scraped off with a thumb nail.

Last week I watched a cat jump up on the track on the open lattice bench work and about 2 foot of ties fell to the ground, I thought; “that can’t be good” and gave Accucraft a call.

Warranty as it was explained to me is one year, but they did offer to work with me.

The down side is that replacement tie strips won’t be available until the first of November.

As for spray on magic compounds some say they work and some say they don’t. What I have noticed is that most times apples are not being compared to apples. I have expansion joint sections spaced about my long runs of Accucraft track these expansion joint sections are LGB and they look just like the day they were installed in 2007.

Different plastics different reactions.

Having said all that I would paint them if for no other reason

than to blend the ties and rail to the ballast.

Good luck

Rick

#19

It can restore flexibility as long as cracks have not developed. Normally, since I have Aristo track, it’s the “spikes” that can crack and break off. Of course if you have not removed the screws that hold the rail in place, the “spikes” don’t do much if anything…

The plasticizer that is in Armorall, and in the Turtle Wax product I like will restore flexibility.

The story I got from my employee (who I have known since 1988 or so) who went to college with an Armorall executive is that the plasticizer is a “spiral molecule” that sort of looks like a spring, and it is this additive that makes the difference in plastics between rigid and flexible. This can be added back to the plastic.

Seems like the hair conditioners that penetrate and help brittle hair.

Maybe hogwash, but my track is basically as good today as it was 10 years ago. Spray twice or so a year, I spray when any whitish surfaces appear, 2 to 3 times a year… I just spray it on and let it soak in.

Greg

#20

Rick- Thanks for the info. I remembered that AML’s track came with a warranty- I didn’t realize that it was only for 1 year. This certainly does put a different spin on things. I haven’t read the instructions on the fusion paint (instructions… we don’t need no stinking instructions!) but, I’m hoping that maybe it has some sort of UV inhibiter. Heck, even if I got a few more years out of the ties before the inevitable.

BTW- what was the outcome when you spoke to the folks at AML? Are they going to replace your tie strips?

Greg- Sounds like the Armor All is a good thing. I must admit- my Aristo track has been out for the same 4 years as the AML and it still looks good. I’m sure Aristo must have used some better UV inhibiters in their plastic.

In any event- My AML ties are not fried, yet, and oddly enough, some of them still look real good. I just figured that as long as I’ve got all the track pulled up, I’ll keep looking for some sort of preventative measures. Thanks for all the ideas and suggestions. Keep 'em coming…

-Kevin.

#21

Kevin, paint is a barrier, a wall, if you will, to UV, not an inhibitor, and as such, it is far superior.

#22

Paint will indicate if it has a UV inhibitor, but put on enough, it can be “sacrificial”, if the paint starts to go, it’s still protecting the ties.

Greg

#23

Greg Elmassian said:

Paint will indicate if it has a UV inhibitor, but put on enough, it can be “sacrificial”, if the paint starts to go, it’s still protecting the ties.

Greg

C’mon Greg, any “UV inhibitor” in the paint is there to protect the paint, not the project.

#24

Steve, yes, but isn’t the end result the same? I am tech, I care about results.

#25

…winking…

#26

Exactly Steve, I guess I did not write clearly. Also, I somehow missed your post right before me, so my post was really unnecessary…

To answer the question, isn’t the end result the same?

Well, are the ties protected either way, yes, I think so.

Do the ties look the same? No, and in my mind you lose some of the detail of the ties, but I don’t think it would bother me.

I just did what I did because I did not paint ties first, at the time Aristo had lifetime warranty.

Greg

#27

Greg, loose some detail, maybe, but only if you glop on the paint. And yea, Aristo ties had a lifetime warranty, the lifetime of the company.

:wink:

#28

N.B. “glop on the paint” might be needed for some paints, especially if they are cheap or not UV or a spray can and not applied evenly.

I here you on the “lifetime”! :slight_smile:

#29

One thing that hasn’t been addressed is to wash the ties with soap and water and then rinse well to remove any oily releasing agent from the plastic. This will help the paint adhere much better. If you are going to take the time to paint your ties, you might as well go all in.

It doesn’t take much, just some soapy water and a paint brush, clean, preferably, a few swipes over the plastic, hose it off, let the ties dry in the sun for a few hours and then paint.

Bada Bing, Bada Boom! Done.

#30

This is especially true with new track. Also, often the “armorall-type” products may have silicones, which are hard to paint over, so a good cleaning if you change from Armorall to paint is also essential.

Greg

#31

In the end, I decided to paint the ties. The rest of the story can be found here:

http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/22149/iron-island-rr-take-two/view/page/2

#32

At the risk of raising some eyebrow over a dead thread resurrection, I will, because I think this is a pretty important topic.

Has there been any feed back from AML on this?

Since this thread fizzled it seems like AML has sold out old tie and a new batch is on the market, Was anything done differently with UV protection on this batch?

Yes, I have a personal motivation here since I just bought 300" of these tie strips, and kind of wonder what i just stepped into. I’ll definitely be painting them.

#33

I understand from a dealer, that AML did in fact add more UV protection to their ties…

#34

Ahh, That’s good news Andy. Thanks. makes me feel a lot better, I’ll still be painting for color, but I don’t mind the extra protection either. Glad to know I’m starting with a better base though.