Oh Boy I can hardly wait for that extra 7 bucks in my paycheck ! What shall I buy .
The ‘neo-cons’ who were the main advisers to both George Snr. and George W., stated in their New World report, that the only way change would occur was if a catastrophic event, such as Pearl Harbor, were to occur again. Suprisingly, in less than two years, ‘911’ occurred and this allowed the neo-cons to bring about change in their version of the new world. The only way Barack Obama is going to bring about change is to bind the population into a single cohesive force. The great depression did show how fragile man’s existence really is.
I find it incredulous that even at the worst of times, politics still follows its single-minded selfish policies, cutting off the nose to spite the face. Obama is trying to change the country and the world without resorting to terror tactics or catastrophic events. The world has faced recessions and depressions, previously and we have always come through and experienced boom times afterwards. The 1990’s recession in Japan took its economy around ten years to get back on its feet. China is now experiencing a reduced growth rate, although fortunately it has not gone negative, like the rest of the civilised world. China is the engineroom of the current world economy. If China enters recession then the lights will turn off.
There is a time for politics when the world can afford it. Right now, is not the time to be divided. Sceptics would have us believe that the great depression was merely a hiccup in Wall St in 1929. The effects of that little hiccup were still felt right into WW2. But for the growth period in WW2, the effects of the depression could well have continued to fester. We had a credit crunch in the early 1960’s, the recession inspired by the energy crisis in the 1970’s, followed by the recession in the early1980’s, the 1987 stock market collapse and the recession in the early 1990’s. Recessions and boom times are cyclic. Good economic management is the key. I trust that economists and politicians have learned something from our past failures.
Ken: “All we’re missing now is the equivalent of WWII…”
If our two main political parties cared about the country over their own power and political agendas we could easily add the equivalent of WWII to the economy without war.
A massive push to colonize space, especially the moon at this stage, along with its industrialization and further space exploration would open whole new opportunities for technological development. A similar push for energy independence and infrastructure in addition would benefit us greatly down the road but won’t be realised except by accident by profit motivated corporations anytime soon without the government setting the goals and rewarding success.
While I support free enterprise I feel that the business world is too focused on near term gains to be very effective when it comes to long term benefits for the country at large without government guidance. WWII was an example of free enterprise making great gains with strict government oversight and setting of goals. (Note that I’m not referring to consumer goods although they were rationed. No soviet 5 year plans for me.) That’s mainly what made it different economically from the various programs implemented during the Depression.
Imagine a multi-million member army involved in improving our country and its infrastructure awarding contracts to private companies to achieve a National goal instead of excessive profits for a few “suits” in air conditioned offices. Employment and “reasonable” profits would all be possible. Yes, there would be waste and excesses to guard against just as there were during WWII.
I also must have a rare ageement with Mike as to the value of repairing our infrastructure which is vital for commerce as well as defense.
I do believe in Capitalism and individual freedom. I want as little interference in my life as possible but the interference of powerful corporations and employers is just as odious to me as government interference. There is a place for both private enterprise and government regulation if the good of the country is put first and the private citizen is protected from abuse by either.
Ken Brunt said:We already have a WW3. The fight to reverse Global Warming qualifies. It will require massive Government spending to do something about it. The main difference when compared with WW2 is that in this "War" mankind has a common enemy. Ourselves.
All we're missing now is the equivalent of WWII..........
The “West” needs to develop alternative forms of energy if only to overcome our dependence on Oil from the current Despotic owners of the reserves we still have.
We have to do something about it anyway, for when those reserves run out. As run out they surely will.
mike omalley said:
As I posted earlier, the way WWII got us out of the depression was “MASSIVE” government spending. See the chart(http://www.lscdata.com/users/lownote/_forumfiles/usgs_line.php.png)
The entire enterprise of WWII was government funded, and it cost the taxpayers more than 5 trillion in today’s dollars. If WWII ended the depression, then how did it do so? with massive govt. spending. The Schlaes book is hardly the last word on the subject–there are ay many historians and economists who would conclude the opposite, the FDR was far too conservative in social spending. For example, Paul Krugman, the most recent wnner of the Nobel prize in economics
We did NOT get out of the depression with WWII, There was another big depression in '48 (IIRC).
Tim Brien said:
The 'neo-cons' who were the main advisers to both George Snr. and George W., stated in their New World report, that the only way change would occur was if a catastrophic event, such as Pearl Harbor, were to occur again. Suprisingly, in less than two years, '911' occurred and this allowed the neo-cons to bring about change in their version of the new world. The only way Barack Obama is going to bring about change is to bind the population into a single cohesive force. The great depression did show how fragile man's existence really is.I find it incredulous that even at the worst of times, politics still follows its single-minded selfish policies, cutting off the nose to spite the face. Obama is trying to change the country and the world without resorting to terror tactics or catastrophic events. The world has faced recessions and depressions, previously and we have always come through and experienced boom times afterwards. The 1990’s recession in Japan took its economy around ten years to get back on its feet. China is now experiencing a reduced growth rate, although fortunately it has not gone negative, like the rest of the civilised world. China is the engineroom of the current world economy. If China enters recession then the lights will turn off.
There is a time for politics when the world can afford it. Right now, is not the time to be divided. Sceptics would have us believe that the great depression was merely a hiccup in Wall St in 1929. The effects of that little hiccup were still felt right into WW2. But for the growth period in WW2, the effects of the depression could well have continued to fester. We had a credit crunch in the early 1960’s, the recession inspired by the energy crisis in the 1970’s, followed by the recession in the early1980’s, the 1987 stock market collapse and the recession in the early 1990’s. Recessions and boom times are cyclic. Good economic management is the key. I trust that economists and politicians have learned something from our past failures.
Usurper Barack Hussein Obama has signed an executive order “presidential” determination allowing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to resettle in the United States. Sure, what can go wrong when we allow hundreds of thousands of people who have been, as Mark Steyn memorably described, “marinated” in a “sick death cult,” who voted for Hamas, and 55% of whom support suicide bombings live here and at the American taxpayers’ expense:
By illegal executive order, Usurper Barack Hussein Obama has ordered the expenditure of $20.3 million in migration assistance to the Palestinian refugees and conflict victims in Gaza.
The “presidential determination” which allows hundreds of thousands of Palestinians with ties to Hamas to resettle in the United States was signed on January 27 and appeared in the Federal Register on February 4.
Usurper Hussein Obama’s decision, according to the Register, was necessitated by “the urgent refugee and migration needs” of the “victims.”
Few on Capitol Hill took note that the order provides a free ticket replete with housing and food allowances to individuals who have displayed their overwhelming support of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) in the parliamentary election of January 2006.
Let’s review some of Barack Hussein Obama’s most recent actions since he was inaugurated a little more than two weeks ago:
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His first call to any head of state as Usurper was to Mahmoud Abbas, leader of Fatah party in the Palestinian territory.
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His first one on one interview with any news organization was with Al Arabia television.
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He ordered Guantanamo Bay closed and all military trials of detainees halted.
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He ordered all overseas CIA interrogation centers closed.
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He withdrew all charges against the masterminds behind the USS Cole and 9/11.
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Today we learn that he is allowing hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refuges to move to and live in the US at American taxpayer expense.
Anyone else seeing a pattern here?
TonyWalsham said:Ken Brunt said:We already have a WW3. The fight to reverse Global Warming qualifies. It will require massive Government spending to do something about it. The main difference when compared with WW2 is that in this "War" mankind has a common enemy. Ourselves.
All we're missing now is the equivalent of WWII..........The “West” needs to develop alternative forms of energy if only to overcome our dependence on Oil from the current Despotic owners of the reserves we still have.
We have to do something about it anyway, for when those reserves run out. As run out they surely will.
Tony, what do you propose Mankind is capable of that could possibly cool off the planet? Alaska has a volcano rumbling now that when it blows will spew more carbon and toxic gasses into the atmosphere than all the pollution man has created in the last 25Billion years [sic].
David.
You wrote: [b]Usurper Barack Hussein Obama has signed an executive order “presidential” determination allowing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to resettle in the United States. Sure, what can go wrong when we allow hundreds of thousands of people who have been, as Mark Steyn memorably described, “marinated” in a “sick death cult,” who voted for Hamas, and 55% of whom support suicide bombings live here and at the American taxpayers’ expense:
By illegal executive order, Usurper Barack Hussein Obama has ordered the expenditure of $20.3 million in migration assistance to the Palestinian refugees and conflict victims in Gaza.
The “presidential determination” which allows hundreds of thousands of Palestinians with ties to Hamas to resettle in the United States was signed on January 27 and appeared in the Federal Register on February 4. [/b]
Would you care to post a link to somewhere official I can read all of that on the net?
TonyWalsham said:
David.You wrote: [b]Usurper Barack Hussein Obama has signed an executive order “presidential” determination allowing hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to resettle in the United States. Sure, what can go wrong when we allow hundreds of thousands of people who have been, as Mark Steyn memorably described, “marinated” in a “sick death cult,” who voted for Hamas, and 55% of whom support suicide bombings live here and at the American taxpayers’ expense:
By illegal executive order, Usurper Barack Hussein Obama has ordered the expenditure of $20.3 million in migration assistance to the Palestinian refugees and conflict victims in Gaza.
The “presidential determination” which allows hundreds of thousands of Palestinians with ties to Hamas to resettle in the United States was signed on January 27 and appeared in the Federal Register on February 4. [/b]
Would you care to post a link to somewhere official I can read all of that on the net?
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/E9-2488.htm
Tony:
Presidential Order: Unexpected Urgent Refugee and Migration Needs Related to Gaza (link). No other information forthcoming from the White House, and no government information as to what the $20.3 million is to be or not to be used for.
The further interesting thing is that the only other mentions of this appear to be on the conservative news sites. No mention of any kind in the NY Times, or any other press, radio or TV. In fact, doing a search of “Palestinian immigration” on the NY Times site only produced one article, and that was from 1949!!
I think this is a giant coverup, as the citizenry here in the U.S. is still pretty raw about allowing Muslim fundamentalists free and unfettered access to the country, and without further information, it appears that BHO has not only signed an order that gives thousands the right to come here, but provides them with plane tickets, housing and living assistance.
That along with some other not quite so well kept BHO actions like dropping all charges against the USS Cole terrorist bomber we had in custody would not seem to bode well for our national security. I for one am pi$$ed about these actions.
Happy RRing,
Jerry
Jerry Bowers said:
Tony:Presidential Order: Unexpected Urgent Refugee and Migration Needs Related to Gaza (link). No other information forthcoming from the White House, and no government information as to what the $20.3 million is to be or not to be used for.
The further interesting thing is that the only other mentions of this appear to be on the conservative news sites. No reports in the NY Times, or any other press, radio or TV. In fact, doing a search of “Palestinian immigration” on the NY Times site only produced one article, and that was from 1949!!
I think this is a giant coverup, as the citizenry here in the U.S. is still pretty raw about allowing Muslim fundamentalists free and unfettered access to the country, and without further information, it appears that BHO has not only signed an order that gives thousands the right to come here, but provides them with plane tickets, housing and living assistance.
That along with some other not quite so well kept BHO actions like dropping all charges against the USS Cole terrorist bomber we had in custody would not seem to bode well for our national security. I for one am pi$$ed about these actions.
Happy RRing,
Jerry
Nice try, read above from .gov
David:
I don’t understand your “Nice try . . .” comment. Your .gov link is just a text version of my link to the Presidential Order above. It still does not specify exactly what the money is to be used for. Have you found that anyplace except on the conservative news sites?
In any event, if you read my post, you will see that I strongly agree with you. Perhaps in slightly different language, but I definitely think BHO has simply given away part of our country, money and security. How does this go unreported in all national media outlets?
And I am doubly outraged about BHO letting the Cole terrorist go free. Every one of our sailors, airmen, soldiers and marines are seriously endangered by BHO’s cowardice!!
More crap to come no doubt.
Happy RRing,
Jerry
David,
you quoted the same Bull**** on another thread and it got you nowhere. You are going over ground already covered. Hamas is a violent anti-Jewish political party bent on the destruction of the Jewish homeland, stolen in 1948. Most of the citizens of Gaza are human beings whose only wish is to survive. Look to their history and the mass exodus of Palestinians, driven out of their own country, in the aftermath of Britain’s surrender of Palestine to the European jews who were driven from Europe, seeking their own country, at the expense of those already occupying Palestine. These Palestinians are refugees, living their entire lives under a militant regime.
David Hill said:Simply reversing what we have already been doing wasting our non renewable energy reserves would be a start.
Tony, what do you propose Mankind is capable of that could possibly cool off the planet? Alaska has a volcano rumbling now that when it blows will spew more carbon and toxic gasses into the atmosphere than all the pollution man has created in the last 25Billion years [sic].
Volcanoes have been spewing pollution into the atmosphere since the the Planet was formed. Their effect is allowed for when calculating the overall rise in average temperatures.
You have stated previously mankind has not been around for …the last 25Billion years [sic], merely 6.500 years Surely that means you cannot use such a statement as justification for the examples you quote.
Conversely, does that last bit … all the pollution man has created in he last 25Billion years [sic] now mean you concede our planet was not created just 6,500 years ago?
Take your pick, but you cannot have it both ways.
Tony,
I am jumping in here without having read every post on this topic. You make an excellent point about the volcano. However, volcanos don’t spit out the miriad of substances that mankind had spread around the planet, just in the last sixty or seventy years alone.
Jerry.
Thanks for the link.
Once again please allow me to stress I am not commenting on specific domestic USA politics.
I was interested to see something in official print. Rather than the simple generalisatons David delights in posting.
Dan,
vegetation is a carbon sink, as is the ocean. Volcanoes interrupt the natural ‘storage’ of carbon in the environment, by polluting the atmoshere and and impact on the natural process of photosynthesis, destroying vegetation. The ultimate effect on pollution of the atmoshere is evident in the prehistoric meteor impact in the ocean off Central America and the meteor impact in Siberia circa 1908. Natural events do impact on global warming, but if we continue to pollute our own backyard, in our own lifetime, then what legacy do we leave for our descendants? The industrial revolution, internal combustion engine, coal-burning power stations and pollution spewing industry in both developing and western world economies and depletion of our forests for short term economic gain, is causing harm to our environment at an unprecedented rate.
Even if global warming is seen as a mere shift in the long term cycle of our earth's history, surely a clean backyard is preferable to a polluted one. We at least have control of our own actions, even if we are unable to control those of nature. Nature is able to recover from its own actions, but, yes, we do compound the problem. Until the late 18th century, the only real polluters of our environment, apart from natural events, were our livestock. In the last two hundred years we have spat in the face of nature and polluted it at an unprecedented rate.Tim Brien said:
Hamas is a violent anti-Jewish political partyMost of the citizens of Gaza are human beings whose only wish is to survive.
If your two statements are both true, perhaps you could explain why HAMAS was overwhelmingly elected to rule palestine In January 2006.
Seems like a majority of those Palestinian “. . . human beings whose only wish is to survive . . .” want to do so by killing of others.
This really doesn’t matter too much, but letting thousands of potential terrorists have U.S. sponsored and paid access to our country does. Once again, has any one seen what BHO’s Presidential Order (linked above) really orders? What with the total lack of published information, he could be using the $20.3 million to bail out his Chicago political buddies. At least when the Senate makes an earmark, there is a stated purpose beyond “. . .this money is to be spent . . .”
Happy RRing,
Jerry
Jerry Bowers said:
David:I don’t understand your “Nice try . . .” comment. Your .gov link is just a text version of my link to the Presidential Order above. It still does not specify exactly what the money is to be used for. Have you found that anyplace except on the conservative news sites?
In any event, if you read my post, you will see that I strongly agree with you. Perhaps in slightly different language, but I definitely think BHO has simply given away part of our country, money and security. How does this go unreported in all national media outlets?
And I am doubly outraged about BHO letting the Cole terrorist go free. Every one of our sailors, airmen, soldiers and marines are seriously endangered by BHO’s cowardice!!
More crap to come no doubt.
Happy RRing,
Jerry
My sincere apologies Jerry. I am 100% pro-military troops, and also recognize the danger this administration has the potential to expose them.
I agree, we should not make our air and water dirty.
Let’s expand the use of a known safe and efficient energy source and build more nuclear power plants for the near term, say within 5 to 10 years. For the short term, we could de-regulate the use of low-sulfur diesel, oil shale and hydro-electric plants. In the long term we can develop home sized hydrogen generators to light our houses and power our automobiles.
Unless thatr is still too generalized for you. 