Large Scale Central

2021 Toy-to-Model Conversion -- Idea Generation & Sanity Che

Modeling
#1

Aloha Everyone,

I have received direction from the crew to focus 2021 on rehabilitating the “missile sponges.” These are the models that were first out / last in when the kids were younger. I’ll start new posts as these projects get underway, but there is one I want to float past the group a bit, Gordon, a Scientific Toy locomotive shown below:

I’ve been discussing this project with Bill Barnwell a bit. The rough plan is to up-scale this to 1:24-ish PLAYMOBIL scale by building / bashing a cab over the back. There is a fair amount of detail to help us out:

The trickier part is giving him a real power train. I’d like Gordon to serve as our as a third road engine. The OR&L, my strategic guide, had 0-4-0, 0-4-2, 4-4-0, 0-6-0, 4-6-0, 2-8-0, and 2-8-2, so any commercial chassis is “fair game,” though evil-Bay would suggest the smaller chassis are more available and eye-ball comparisons suggest they would be more compatible with this toy. Surviving 4-6-0 and 0-6-0 sit idled in Ewa, so I have ready guides for the project.

Has anyone out there used this toy as a basis for a similar conversion?

I have one ace-in-the hole here, a powered LGB tender. I could use that to push Gordon in his final incarnation. The real limitation is tools. I have my Dremel, myu saber saw, and a variety of hand tools.

The kids’ grandpa saved Gordon from the scrapper’s for $1.50. At that price, I feel comfortable cutting, drilling, screwing, etc. Gordon has served his purpose and well, and I suggested we simply retire “him.” I got overruled. We’ve learned rehabilitating a basket case does not save money, and I’ve learned the motor block drives the project (at least in my case).

As I said, this is a 2021 project. I am soliciting advice now to save the cash and accumulate the parts so we can move forward. If this is really is a project too far, I’ll take it back to the crew and devise a new way to retire Gordon with full honors.

Thanks!

Eric

Holiday Prep...and the Coming End of a Motive Power Era
#2

Eric;

Using a powered tender to propel the locomotive is a tried and true practice. I have a Hornby Flying Scotsman, Mallard (both 4-6-2s), and Evening Star (2-10-0) in OO that use that method. I have also had some 0-6-0 goods locomotives by Lima in OO that ran well in that configuration. The only caution I see is to assure that the locomotive can be made to roll freely, and without any binding of the drive rods & valve linkage. Sloppy rods & valve linkage let down a beautiful French-made HO 2-8-2 Liberation Class Mikado that I once owned. The rods would lock-up and the locomotive would slide along in front of its tender!

From your photos, I am guessing that the locomotive is powered with a relatively low voltage battery motor geared to a drive wheel axle. You would want to remove that motor, but you would probably not have to remove the gear from the drive wheel axle. The locomotive appears to have dummy (non-moving) valve linkage, so you would just have to make sure the axles and drive rods turn freely. If you have room down in the chassis, you may want to add 4-6 ounces of weight down there to keep the locomotive tracking well. The tear drop shaped fish line sinkers work very well for this. I think they may be available in tungsten or brass now, if lead concerns you. Places that have Pine Car/Pinewood Derby supplies also sell flat tungsten weights for those cars. (Check with a local Boy Scout office if there are no hobby shops nearby.)

OK enough drivel.

Hope this helps, David Meashey

#3

Dave,

Thanks. I had not thought about keeping the original wheel set and rods. That would save some cash, which is always good, and I’ve seen photos on this 'site of what others have done with paint to make plastic look like another material.

Oh, and you are right. Gordon runs on “C” batteries. “He” happily chugs along pulling a string of minis, but tends to stall on turns. For $1.50, “he” has brought a lot of joy to younger railroaders and saved a few heartbeats on the older ones!

Eric

#4

while we were waiting for the birth of our eldest (that was in '92) in the capital, i found one of these toy locos, that run-n-bump on the floor.

with a pocket knife (a swissmade with a lot of gimmicks!), scissors, nailfile and a hacksawblade i bashed it.

some coffee stirrers, an alufoil baking-form, glue and black spraypaint were used.

that “project” had one reason only: to keep a father-to-be from going nuts!

but back home i just tried, if it would run with an LGB tender. they run together now for 28 years.

(only the driving rods went missing somehow, sometime)

#5

Korm,

That is great! The only “problem,” of course, is that you and Dave may have me start on a cardstock mock-up of Gordon’s new cab before I make much more progress on my sugar mill (cut-anneal-measure-cut-crimp-repeat).

A way forward is forming…Of course, this means I will have to make a research run to the Hawaiian Historical Society post lock-down. Darn…

Have a great week!

Eric

#6

Eric, how come “Gordon” isn’t blue, and what’s a “missile sponge” ??

#7

Pete;

This may answer one of your questions: "I have received direction from the crew to focus 2021 on rehabilitating the “missile sponges.” These are the models that were first out / last in when the kids were younger. "

Perhaps the Thomas Tank Engine characters are just mentioned by name and for fun, without regard for color or wheel arrangement. The Thomas’ Gordon is a relative to the Flying Scotsman and has a 4-6-2 wheel arrangement. The Gordon mentioned in this thread is a Prairie type (2-4-2).

Regards, David Meashey

#8

Pete,

Great questions, and Dave is pretty close to the mark. I borrowed “missile sponge” from the U.S. Navy Cold War vernacular, which was still en vogue when I signed on. The crews of the escort vessels protecting our carriers and, at the time, battleships, jokingly referred to their ships as “missile sponges” since it was their job to destroy, deflect, and, if necessary, absorb hits to allow the high value unit to sail on. Gordon and a handful of cheaper or damaged models served the same purpose on the Triple O. They absorbed “hits” that allowed the rest of the roster to steam on. There was no way to even begin in the hobby without finding a way for the crew to be actively engaged, and the missile sponges of the Triple O served admirably. They still remain first out / last when we have certain visitors who insist we run the trains but won’t honor their delicacy (grumble, grumble, grumble…).

Kid-zilla did indeed name Gordon for his rough similarity to the Thomas the Tank engine namesake. No one objected, which is very, very unusual for Triple O motive power. All of our locomotives get names, and the names usually say something about the particular engine’s story. As you can imagine, this leads to a naming process that has proven as easy as de-needling a cactus while simultaneously brushing a shark’s teeth! The process usually lasts days, and, in the case of our railbus, Rudy, the poor thing served without a name for years despite “his” role as a go-to member of the roster! Anyway, this is a good reminder that Gordon will need some blue in his next incarnation in keeping with his heritage!

I’m getting sort of jazzed about this. Shattered STAINZ and busted LGB 2017D make relatively frequent appearances on evil-Bay. A cardstock cab may be in order sooner rather than later…

Eric

#9

Eric,

I did one of those locos years back. It worked. I did away with the C cells and installed a 9.6 VDC NiMH battery pack in the tender. I took off the lead and trailing truck as they always were derailing with all my switch track. I also removed the traction tires (they were always breaking) and machined the groove for them off the drivers. Mine never had the valve gear like yours but does have an open rear to the cab. The real drawback is it only has full speed forward or full speed reverse. I wish it had speed control. I don’t run it much these days as I have upwards of 20 other locos about half RC/Battery controlled.

#10

Joe,

Another awesome idea. Those lead and trailing trucks are a real pain. The whole toy is unbalanced, in fact, which detracts from its value, especially as it is probably targeted at the 3-6 year crowd. What fun is a train that jumps the track?

Eric

#11

I posted on facebook on some of the G sites a how-to for several upgrades to the EZTEC engine, biggest is trim the flanges off the center driver, reason being it will track thru corners and over turnouts far far better than the stock model will. also how to convert it to either 6 AA or a single 9V rechargeable batteries. Big weight savings but with the powered tender just consider it for future propjects. Never posted it here as the images were direct from my phone and doing the transfer shuffle of that many picto get them on here was too much of a pita. also I’ve used up my storage space.

#12

Hey Vic,

The Eztec locos that Eric and I have shown only have 4 drive wheels. It is awfully hard to trim the flange off the center driver.(https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

#13

Joe Zullo said:

Hey Vic,

The Eztec locos that Eric and I have shown only have 4 drive wheels. It is awfully hard to trim the flange off the center driver.(https://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

I didn’t see those photos when I initially posted this, they didn’t load. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

#14

Oops dbl post (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

#15

OK,

Here is what I am getting:

  1. The project is not insane*.* Gordon can be a suitable base for a future road engine. We simply need to decide how far to modify Gordon cosmetically to fit our purposes.
  2. There are multiple power options. I can either improve the battery or go with the powered tender. Assuming we go forward with the powered tender option, Gordon’s current tender will go into the parts bin.

Based upon this, Kid-zilla (who does not have virtual school) and I traced the outline of a STAINZ cab and grabbed the 1:24 scale crew for a visual vector check:

The sideview shows to make use of the backhead details we will need to extend the cab well over the current “transom” (sorry, I’ve no idea what the railroad equivalent term is!). I think the proportions, however, are a about right. The tender, btw, came free in the “Great Find of 2019.” The sticker is not my doing. Its continued existence is at the crew’s insistence. The problem with railroading by committee!

The stern shot was more revealing:

Any crew will be awfully, awfully low in the cab!

The answer probably lies in Ewa. Note how both the 4-6-0 and 0-6-0 below have big, low windows on the sides and forward bulkheads of their cabs (both pictures from the internet):

Of course, this may dictate scratch building the cab, in itself a worthy “next step” in our collective progress as modelers and crafters… I should note, the OR&L converted to oil early and fast. I’ve no desire to do that to the iron horses of the Triple O…at this time! If the lockdown ever ends, we may have to head out with a measuring tape. With measurements in hand, it really becomes a matter or lateral clearance. The roof may still be too high relative to the backhead, but I think this could still work.

A way forward is beginning to crystalize here… The next step is obtaining the measurements. I’d take the next train to Ewa but a.) rails never got to my town, and b.) most of the rails are gone anyway…

Eric

#16

you and your crew should decide if you want that loco look european or north-american.

the great backwards overhang of the mock-up cabin from the last axle looks very european, while your layout (with exception of the roman war-car) looks more american.

#17

lessee…Hawaii is dang hot, at least by Alaskan standards. Add in locomotive crew next to a hot boiler…yep, they’ll likely want all the ‘air conditioning’ they can get, which means big windows. They’ll still want a roof, though (sun-shield)

#18

lessee…Hawaii is dang hot, at least by Alaskan standards. Add in locomotive crew next to a hot boiler…yep, they’ll likely want all the ‘air conditioning’ they can get, which means big windows. They’ll still want a roof, though (sun-shield)

#19

@Korm: We will try to keep this thing American-ish. The toy, as is, settles by the stern, so we will have to put weights forward of the midpoint. I may take a guide off our B’mann 10-wheeler and have minimal deck behind the boiler backhead but extend the deck forward of the tender.

@Tim. Yep, it is! I am actually surprised that only a handful of imported Fowlers working the plantations remained cab-less given that heat. On the drier sides of the islands, where the water came primarily from wells or via irrigation systems from the mountains, you wouldn’t have thought rain would’ve been a problem. The OR&L had no cab-less engines, even working the yards and the docks. On the downside of this, there will be no “boonie cab,” which would’ve been easy!

The lockdown is slowly lifting, the museum opened this weekend, and this means I should be able to get out to the railyard with a member of the crew to get some measurements off the derelict 4-6-0 (poor thing!) for a better cardstock mock-up. That mock-up will determine the direction of this project. If a 1:24-ish PLAYMOBIL scale cab is possible and will clear our tunnels, we’ll proceed along those lines using the powered tender, possibly even detailing Gordon out a bit more. Otherwise, Gordon will get a new paint job and a new power source per Vic’s and Joe’s suggestions but remain “out of scale” relative to the rest of the Triple O’s roster. Not that anyone round these parts would notice or care!

This is shaping out to be my kind of project…low money input and high learning output coupled with a trip to the railyard and the best pizza on island!

Eric

#20

Eric Mueller said:

@Korm: We will try to keep this thing American-ish. The toy, as is, settles by the stern, so we will have to put weights forward of the midpoint. I may take a guide off our B’mann 10-wheeler and have minimal deck behind the boiler backhead but extend the deck forward of the tender.

@Tim. Yep, it is! I am actually surprised that only a handful of imported Fowlers working the plantations remained cab-less given that heat. On the drier sides of the islands, where the water came primarily from wells or via irrigation systems from the mountains, you wouldn’t have thought rain would’ve been a problem. The OR&L had no cab-less engines, even working the yards and the docks. On the downside of this, there will be no “boonie cab,” which would’ve been easy!

The lockdown is slowly lifting, the museum opened this weekend, and this means I should be able to get out to the railyard with a member of the crew to get some measurements off the derelict 4-6-0 (poor thing!) for a better cardstock mock-up. That mock-up will determine the direction of this project. If a 1:24-ish PLAYMOBIL scale cab is possible and will clear our tunnels, we’ll proceed along those lines using the powered tender, possibly even detailing Gordon out a bit more. Otherwise, Gordon will get a new paint job and a new power source per Vic’s and Joe’s suggestions but remain “out of scale” relative to the rest of the Triple O’s roster. Not that anyone round these parts would notice or care!

This is shaping out to be my kind of project…low money input and high learning output coupled with a trip to the railyard and the best pizza on island!

Eric

Eric,

A couple of Fowlers “Invicta” has a roof but no windows as has been mentioned before in hot climes air con was all the go. Invicta’s has a 0/20 model air con ie no windows and do 20mph (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)

http://www.bundabergcanetrains.org.au/