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#21

How long the ties are and how far apart they are depends on weather you’re modeling 2’ gauge or 3’ gauge. But then you may not have considered that yet. In either case the gauge is wrong, it’s about 2 1/2’. So no matter what you decide to do it’ll be wrong (as in “not prototypical”). Don’t get too hung up on things like tie length, spacing, rail code, etc. because you’ve chosen to model in a scale/gauge which is by definition a compromise. Do what looks and feels right to you without breaking the bank and spend the big bucks on your locos and control /sound systems.

Take a look in the Photo Album section under Walter Sarapa’s Album - there are two views of some trial pieces of HO Flextrack modified by clipping the ends off every other tie, painting the center grey and then ballasting over the tie.

#22

With On30 you can do away with the road bed most of the time, most smaller narrow gauge lines, espcialy logging and mining lines didnt use a raised road bed or much ballest at all for that matter depending on what part country they were in. On30 allows one to get away from the “Rivit Counting” that has become more the norm in other scales. Your railroad can be its own prototype, freelancing is much more the norm in On30. But you can also model the C&S, DRGW with equipment that is out there. Logging and mining are very popular using the Bachmann geared engines. They have a T boiler shay and 28 ton Climax on the market, with and without sound/dcc. The geared engines are more prone to gear cracking but so are several other engines out there. There are fixes for most all the issues. I personaly have one of the latest runs of the Climax with factory installed Tsunami sound/dcc. I plan to make her a 3 truck model using a kit from Backwoods Miniatures. I highly recommend you check out thier website. While they are based out of the UK, they do sell on ebay were you can use paypal to buy thier items. They offer both a dress up kit and a 3rd truck kit for both the Climax and the Shay. Bachmann also has a Heisler coming some time this year. My layout willl be a shelf type logging layout, with a double switch back to gain ground up the mountian to the log load out. The On30 geared engines from Bachmann are also designed so you can spread the wheel sets to On3 gauge if you want true 3" gauge instead of 30". I plan to use Micro Engineering track and Peco turnouts. To me using HO track looks to odd so unless you have a bunch of it alread in hand, the cost differance to get true On30 narrow gauge track very little. On30 has all but killed off On3 due to high cost of proper On3 brass engines. Even the brass builders are paying attention, PSC has begun to offer thier On3 engines gauged to On30. Its definatly the narrow gauge scale for the current and future. Bachmann has publicly stated on their website they are commited to it and will continue to bring out new models. 2-6-6-2 and 2-4-4-2 being the most recent, as well as the upcoming Heisler. There are kits to upscale old Rivarossi/AHM Heislers, the Bachmann 3 truck shay to a 2 truck model in On30 ect. I hope you give it a shot. Mike

#23

Actually the cost difference between Peco On30 track and turnouts and Atlas track is considerable. I just checked ebay and found that 3’of Peco On30 code 100 NS flextrack is $ 9.00 vs Atlas for $4.00. A Peco #6 turnout is 26.00 vs Atlas for $13.50.

So a layout with 150’ of track and 20 turnouts would cost about $970.00 for Peco and $470.00 for Atlas. You can buy a lot of goodies for $500.

Walt

#24

I just bought my first 0n30 track from our ‘local’ (~60 mile drive each way) hobby shop: Micro Engineering Code 83, 3’ sections for ~$7 each. Micro Engineering lists this track at 6 pieces for $45.70 & Micro Mark is a few dollars less. The turnouts were ~$24 at my local. The ME & MM prices do not include shipping, so my local has the best deal. This is certainly more expensive than H0 track, but visually much more like prototype narrow gauge track.

Contrary to the post above, there were numerous 30" gauge railroads around the world. There were even a few around N. California and in the Sierras. Though the prototypes were limited in numbers and longevity, the 0n30 (H0) track gauge at ~31" is very close to accurate when modeling these railroads.

The thing that is lost on many folks is that this is 0-scale: 1:48. The ties and turnouts are significantly bigger than comparable H0 scale track, and the rail is heavier. IMO, it is largely about the appearance, even when freelancing!

Happy (0-scale, narrow gauge) RRing,

Jerry

#25

30 inch gauge is very close to European 760 millimeter gauge which works out to about 29 and 15/16 inches.

Here, this video shows 760mm gauge steamer with a bunch of railfans for size reference
"Uploaded on Nov 2, 2009

BDZ 609.76 steam loco at Velingrad Station (Bulgaria)"
http://youtu.be/oxcl4qF8woQ

#26

Forrest:

Thanks for the link!

Interesting minutia: As you point out, 760mm gauge is ~29.92". This was a quite common narrow gauge in various parts of the world.

0n30 uses H0 gauge track which is 0.649" between the rails. Since 0n30 uses the American 0-scale ratio of 1:48, the gauge works out to ~31.17". Slightly further away from 30" than the 760mm railroads!

Moving on: As I develop my interest in 0n30, I am looking at various scenarios to include in my proposed layout. I took inventory of the unbuilt kits I have, and found 2 PBY-5 aircraft, a DC-3, a Piper cub, and a Republic Seabee, all in 1:48 scale. I mentioned this at the NMRA Redwood Empire Division Meet yesterday, and a couple of guys immediately said I should model a Navy base where the PBYs would be stationed. They quickly listed all the items that would come & go by rail, and pointed out that there are several historic examples of NG railroads serving U.S. military installations. And, since the PBYs are amphibians, no runway is required. Just a ramp going into the water.

Since my layout will be built in my (now empty) airplane hanger, the room is availble, and it would really help fulfill and continue my lifetime interest in airplanes, flying and railroading. Now if I just live long enough to see some of this to fruition!

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#27

I can only find info on one 30" steam RR in the US, the Alder Gulch shortline in Montana. There may be another in CA. The loco at Alder Gulch was built for and used in Mexico before coming to MT. I believe that even at the peak of steam power there were very few 30" railroads in the US. The most popular NG track gauge was 36". There were also quite a few 24" gauge roads as well, mainly in the state of Maine.

I believe that most On30 modelers base their railroads on either 36" or 24" prototypes. There are those who are 100 % freelancers and don’t care what their models are patterned after. I happen to lean toward the Maine 24" roads . But not any particular RR, and there were many. I modify my rolling stock with the longer wheelbase trucks and lower the bodies down onto the trucks to more closely replicate the look and feel of the Mainers. The only loco that’s close to correct is the forney. But I’m going to take a shot at modifying the 2-8-0 to resemble the 2-6-0’s and 2-6-2’s that were used. The Heislers, 2-4-4-0, porters, etc will need a believable cover story to explain why they are being used.

Further, I’ve modified one engine (a Porter) and a couple cars by raising the roofs and cab The intent is to model in 1:43 scale (.279" = 1’). This makes the track gauge 28.26", getting me closer to 24" prototype, and, It allows me to use the vast supply of diecast autos and trucks, as well as 1:43 scale figures. So far the concept seems feasible.

#28

Walter:

I wasn’t disputing the fact that 30" gauge RRs were in the extreme minority, nor that most narrow gauge RRs were 36" gauge.

I just did not agree with your statement that “. . . In either case the gauge is wrong, it’s about 2 1/2’. So no matter what you decide to do it’ll be wrong (as in “not prototypical”).”

Here is a link to Wikipedia where one of the California 30" railroads is described:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yosemite_Short_Line_Railway

It was certainly short-lived, but one of the cars still exists at Railtown 1897 in Jamestown, CA.

The others (I am aware of at least two) here in N. CA were very early industrial and logging RRs, with scant documentation. Sometimes they didn’t even have names, and were certainly short lived. I have a pix of one that was built for mining some mineral, but can not find it at the moment.

While 1:43 in used for 0-scale in Europe, most American 0-scale is modeled in 1:48. See the NMRA’s scale & gauge page at:

http://www.nmra.org/beginner/scale.html

And the Wikipedia page where both European 0-scales of 1:43.5 to 1:45 are presented, along with the American 0-scle of 1:48:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_scale

IMO, non-railroad 1:48 models are the most common, especially here in the U.S. The aircraft models I referenced above are all 1:48, along with numerous diecast and plastic vehicles ranging from antique autos to modern construction equipment. Then to prove that there is always something outside of what we think is the ‘standard,’ there are lots of 1:50 scale diecast models.

All of the above is not meant to say that anything a modeler does is wrong, but just to show the varieties available.

BTW, The YSL used two 30" gauge Porters!

Happy RRing,

Jerry

#29

Jerry I apologize for being too general. I realize that there are a few guys in our midst who model obscure or very specific prototypes and I applaud them. However I believe that most of us who have turned to On30 are looking for something a little less rigid. I have absolutely no proof of this but I think that most newcomers to On30 might fit into the latter category. That’s probably why I made my over-broad statement.

If I may use another generalization - I think the majority of On30 guys are concerned about cost. That’s why we buy and use Bachmann ON30 instead of more detailed and vastly more expensive brass On3 or On2 stuff. That’s what caused me to start looking for more affordable vehicles and figures to populate my layout.

Actually, I’ve found it fairly difficult to find affordable 1:48 scale autos and trucks. However there is a plethora of very well detailed 1:43 scale diecst cars and trucks available - Yat Ming is a prime example, among many others, at very affordable prices. But, 1:43 models look too large when put next to unmodified On30 RR equipment. That’s why I’m considering making the switch from 1:48 to 1:43 scale. I’m a lone wolf modeler and seldom if ever run any of my stuff on other layouts and vice versa.