Yea, and how many “scale” rails actually look like that? I know that Atlas N scale rail didn’t look much like that when I was in N scale.
I just knew you were then going to question the model rail profile.
I’ve got this problem solved, I’m coming over your house and milling your rail flat, welding flat steel strips on top, and then handing you a file to smooth the inside corners.
The US inspectors will then come to your house in 5 years and investigate and publish the results.
Greg (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)
Here’s some direct comparisons. As I see it the only real concern is the hardness of the track vs brass. But then again, plenty of folks use Stainless Steel track, which I believe, (& I’m sure someone will correct me if I am wrong) harder than mild steel.
332 track profile
Bar stock profile
332 rail & calipers (3-mill, yep):
bar stock rail (also 3-mills):
Yep, the contact patch is smaller so it could cause more wear, or grooving… who knows. (In the particular example you show, which seems to show rail that has been flattened too much on top)
Again, a lot of continuous running will probably wear wheels faster, and a little running and point to point, low speeds may last forever.
Greg
Greg:
neither rail has been modified.
EDIT: forgot to add: once again, for 40 CENTS per foot, I think I can afford to replace wheels a few times.
I’m not a big continuous runner. I run only when I’m out there doing it… I don’t let 'em just run & run. Also, an earlier comment about the plating: Most of my aristo stuff with plated wheels lost their plating running on brass anyway.
Greg Elmassian said:
I agree that Fred did not try to cut him down, but ALSO has many years of experience and there are many people who try “iffy” things and the failures are, sure, embarrassing, but to underscore Fred’s point, often not reported for that reason.
Fred Said:
This latest “Barstock” rail suggestion, and experience, no-mater how well it is explained and planned, will end up like so many, over the years…never heard from again, after a year or less…going by past offerings of the same ideas…`
No, Fred just very nicely told me I was wrong & WOULD fail & we should all wait & see. Basically. VERY politely though 
John, I think your getting back into the hobby is great, your innovation is great, and the fact that you’re having fun is great!
Regarding your design, I’d think a lot is depending on your ties and how your rails connect to them. As you know, you’ll need to keep the rails very vertical and well-gauged. That’s tough around curves, with differential rail expansion, and no perpendicular flange at the bottom to spike down on. But if you’ve accounted for all that, at 40 cents a foot, that’s amazing!!
But! The golden rule is HAVE FUN. And if you feel like experimenting with new methods, it’s YOUR LAYOUT!!
For myself, I don’t use brass rail. And if you don’t get any bites here or on the other site, I’d recommend putting them up on Ebay as a lot. That will result in the highest market coverage, and probably the best sales price (even after the 10% or whatever fees). Surely there are hand-layers out there who will want it. My only advice is to make your starting bid at a fair value to you, not some give-away price. And since it takes time for the right people to come across it, be prepared to relist several times, dropping your opening price only by small increments.
Keep posting!
===>Cliffy
Cliff Jennings said:
John, I think your getting back into the hobby is great, your innovation is great, and the fact that you’re having fun is great!
Regarding your design, I’d think a lot is depending on your ties and how your rails connect to them. As you know, you’ll need to keep the rails very vertical and well-gauged. That’s tough around curves, with differential rail expansion, and no perpendicular flange at the bottom to spike down on. But if you’ve accounted for all that, at 40 cents a foot, that’s amazing!!
But! The golden rule is HAVE FUN. And if you feel like experimenting with new methods, it’s YOUR LAYOUT!!
For myself, I don’t use brass rail. And if you don’t get any bites here or on the other site, I’d recommend putting them up on Ebay as a lot. That will result in the highest market coverage, and probably the best sales price (even after the 10% or whatever fees). Surely there are hand-layers out there who will want it. My only advice is to make your starting bid at a fair value to you, not some give-away price. And since it takes time for the right people to come across it, be prepared to relist several times, dropping your opening price only by small increments.
Keep posting!
===>Cliffy
Hey Cliff:
Thanks for your reply. Absolutely correct about keeping the rails parallel to each other , in gauge & perpendicular to the ties. I made a jig to hold the rails while I weld on the ties. That MOSTLY solved that, even around curves. EDIT: I said “mostly” here, cause it’s easy to forget to move the jig down the rail when welding up. Ask me how I know.
Laying up long lengths without a long enough perfectly flat surface has been my biggest problem, as it is easy to introduce “leans” & “humps”. Have to be careful there. Sucks to be kneeling & welding up out in the driveway though.
re: selling the remaining brass. No worries there, I didn’t see at first there is a for-sale forum here & I just wanted to be careful & not offend the site owners/moderator.
I sell on ebay a lot. That’s where I sold off all my old brass track in 2014-15. It IS rather expensive to do so & as I said, with the small amount I have left, & with a bunch of being
loose rail, my thoughts were to find someone active into building their own switches, etc., rather than a newbie hesitant to cut his first piece of sectional track (I know I was).
anyhow, thanks for the reply.
Greg Elmassian said:
I just knew you were then going to question the model rail profile.
I’ve got this problem solved, I’m coming over your house and milling your rail flat, welding flat steel strips on top, and then handing you a file to smooth the inside corners.
The US inspectors will then come to your house in 5 years and investigate and publish the results.
Greg (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)
Yea, because we are talking about model train rails, so why no bring up model rail profile?
But, if the top and inside edge (the round over) are close to what they should be, then does it matter if its bar stock, bull head, or T rail? I agree, from the pictures, that the bar stock doesn’t have the same profile in those areas, but if he flattens the top a bit, he can come close.
Bar stock rail has been done in the ride on scales. http://ibls.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Groovy_Track And is being done in another thread here out in Oregon.
David Maynard said: is being done in another thread here out in Oregon.
Unbelievable amount of info/suggestions in that thread regarding use of bar stock for rail.
Yes, but please refer to my way earlier posts:
apples to oranges… Staver uses big broad curves, low speeds and mostly expensive steam locos with SS wheels.
The example here is very tight curves, and in the example shown Aristo locos that have crappy platings (although they are steel underneath).
Greg
Maybe someone needs to start a cottage industry making replacement locomotive wheels for Aristocraft locomotives. With some minor improvements of course.
Been around for years, NWSL … I’m surprised.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
Yes, but please refer to my way earlier posts:
apples to oranges… Staver uses big broad curves, low speeds and mostly expensive steam locos with SS wheels.
The example here is very tight curves, and in the example shown Aristo locos that have crappy platings (although they are steel underneath).
Greg
I run all metal wheels so there is no concern for plastic wheels. I don’t know what example you are referring to Greg, my curves (so far) are approx 12.5 dia. Much wider than what I had when I had Aristo track. I had 8’ minimum, 9’s where I actually did a full 90-degree turn.
Also, I swapped out all the loco wheels with traction tires for one without years ago… so again, all steel wheels.
Life’s been getting in the way of getting back to this project. Had to move my temporary setup & haven’t got to the point of re-laying track on the old “main” layout yet. Lot’s of steel laying out there waiting on me to make more track.
–
craig
I made no mention of plastic wheels. I did mention Stainless Steel wheels, not steel wheels, big difference.
The only loco I have seen is that Aristo little critter, steel wheels with crummy plating (I have Aristo locos too)
This curve did not look “broad”, and looks closer to 10 foot: http://www.vintage-art-and-posters.com/RR/run_short.mkv
What is the diameter? It’s the only circle you presented.
You absolutely are running much smaller curves than this:
So, this guy is running curves TWICE as broad as you are, so until you show me curves this broad, I will maintain we have apples and oranges comparing the above layout with perfectly aligned and machined bar stock track to your curves and track materials/construction…
It’s not negative, it’s just that there’s no comparison between the two implementations in my opinion, given these facts.
Greg
Geeze Greg…why challenge it and let the man post. Or are you just butthurt that it’s not your RR I know I am!
Greg: Color me well & good insulted.
I know you didn’t mention plastic wheels, I mentioned them because of the voiced concern about wheel wear. I’m not sure I’d ever stated that all my wheels had been converted.
My curves are certainly not as wide or broad as stavers, no doubt. I never considered a 12.5 curve “tight” though. Not many folks have the space for curves like stavers.
I don’t see they are doing any “machining” on their steel bar stock at all. Not even to the point of softening that hard edge that clearly shows in many of the pictures. Certainly that rail head is even further from prototypical than mine. I don’t know why their rail “alignment” is superior. Certainly their switches/points look fantastic, that much is certain.
Makes me wonder, has anyone tried making a jig to give steel or brass bar stock a more prototypical profile? An angle grinder would make quick work of it. (or make a pretty dangerous projectile). Another thought, I’ve milled aluminum on a table saw. Hmmm?
Not try to insult you and I have been very clear… just 2 different situations, and pretty darn different. So my opinion is you can’t use one to support the other, or to put down the other either.
I completely agree about the machining at Stavers, and I personally am very interested in their wheel wear, as the metal they are using looks wider and flatter than yours. While the ideal is to get more contact between the tread and rail head, your rail tops look much less “aggressive” than the more squared off steel they are using.
I would say though their alignment and capability to hold gauge should be without question as opposed to your much more infrequent “ties”, plus welding tends to have things move from heat, as opposed to their wooden ties “mass produced” to closely hold consisteng gauge. Also, joining rails has to be better aligned.
You have found clever ways to minimize cost, but comparison to the Staver trackwork is really not a close comparison. You have a system, it works for you, that is good.
Greg
Interesting thread. Looking at the bar stock rail design and compairing to a 332 piece of rail I would think you would not have to be to concerned about wheel wear as It would take a long time and a lot of train running to get to the point of how worn the wheels may become. I seen more rail wearwhen I had an HO rail road using nickle silver rail and after about 20 years the rail wear in curves was significant. Never had wheel wear that bad. My curent G railroad is all SS and been in use for 14 years and I like some seen the plating come off of poorly plated wheels. I will be interested to see how this project works out. Later RJD