My lovely bride got me one of those fancy levels several years ago for my birthday. I don’t know how I managed without it. It even has a laser in line with “level” so you can line things up at a distance.
I must respectfully disagree with my friend from the Sovereign State of Oklahoma, Tom Ruby. A well calibrated Seaman’s Eye is as good as any mechanical corntraption. Emphasis is on “well calibrated.”. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
Steve Featherkile said:
My lovely bride got me one of those fancy levels several years ago for my birthday. I don’t know how I managed without it. It even has a laser in line with “level” so yo can line things up at a distance.
I must respectfully disagree with my friend from the sovereign State of Oklahoma, Tom Ruby. A well calibrated Seaman Eye is as good as any mechanical corntraption. Emphasis is on “well calibrated.”. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
My father-in-law is sort of the same way. He can measure things down to dang near a 32nd of an inch by eyeballing.
Devon Sinsley said:
Steve Featherkile said:
My lovely bride got me one of those fancy levels several years ago for my birthday. I don’t know how I managed without it. It even has a laser in line with “level” so yo can line things up at a distance.
I must respectfully disagree with my friend from the sovereign State of Oklahoma, Tom Ruby. A well calibrated Seaman Eye is as good as any mechanical corntraption. Emphasis is on “well calibrated.”. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
My father-in-law is sort of the same way. He can measure things down to dang near a 32nd of an inch by eyeballing.
Is your F-I-L a Sailor?
Steve Featherkile said:
Is your F-I-L a Sailor?
No saw mill worker, retired
I have one of those mechanical measuring eyes, ok probably two of 'em. I trusted them to be good enough.
Let me say that electrical level revealed many steeper grades than I thought I had… not that I care to admit them…
John
I found that I could not accurately survey my land. Or perhaps it was just too much effort? Either way, it’s not like laying track in a basement where all you have to deal with are uneven floors and non-right angle walls. It was almost impossible for me to accurately locate the exact shape and size of every tree trunk, bush, or root.
Sure, I measured the yard to get the basic dimensions so I could see what might be possible and draw a basic track plan, but it certainly wasn’t at the level of accuracy needed for a detailed plan. I even got a digital level that reads out in %.
But, I did better when I took some track outside and started laying it in the place I thought I wanted it. Often, I would encounter a root or some other obstacle and have to change my plans. Once it was lying on the ground, I just used some big rubber bands to make sure the track pieces would stay together; then, I would run a train and see how it looked, or if it struggled on a grade. Pulled around the # of cars I wanted to run in both directions. Then I used some bricks to elevate the track where needed until the grade was where I wanted it to be. That’s how I discovered where I needed bridges or long trestles.
My basic plan did not survive contact with the yard, especially when I would discover a giant rock (BFR?) or a hidden root while doing some digging. Changes were made as I put down track; sometimes just because I thought it would look better than my original track plan if I went wide around a bush, instead of curving in front of it.
Remember, there’s no race. Take your time.
Here is a simple way to set grade: Cut Several dozen 12" stakes with a flat end and a point on the other.
I made these up for max grade…
Drive a stake at the bottom of the grade to desired grade. Set the level with the raised end on the driven stake, drive the next stake at the other end of the level, until the bubble shows level. Move in to the next stake. With a two foot level you can even get around the curves, that you can’t get with a 8ft board.
Worked for me…
I did much the same as Bruce. I took some track out into the yard and decided that I wanted to go “over thar,” but not “over thar.” I wanted to put “ACME Anvil, INC” over heyuh, and “XYZ Explosives,” over theyuh. I could make a cut here, and a fill there, a bridge was needed over there for drainage, and so on. I made some benchwork where the terrain really fell away, and those areas became townsites where there were concentrations of industries to switch out.
None of my planning went beyond the “napkin” stage. Oh, I did use RRTrack once or twice to play with ideas, but none of the ideas ever made it to the dirt unchanged. Patton was right when he said, “No plan survives first contact.” At least I think it was Patton. It might have been Sun Tzu.
The best idea is: Get some track on the ground and see what happens.
On my indoor small scale layouts I used a yard stick and a block on one end. Cutting blocks for support were easy with a known surface.
Dirt is different, it undulates and the gap between the level’s ends on a stick allows that unevenness. When I slid the shorter electro unit over my work I found corrugations! With my shortie attached to a longer straight edge I can pull the track up and shove ballast under… and have the level on the grade.
John
I probably overdid the project, but a friend had surveyor’s instruments and knew how to use them. So we laid out a grid on three foot centers all through the yard, and fixed the existing elevations on a piece of land that was about 55 feet wide by 11 feet deep. then we plotted the fixed items, mostly trees and walls.
Knowing where they were made designing the layout much easier. After numerous designs and design changes, I developed “the plan.” Then I went out and tried to build it that way. The survey let me know where I had to cut and or fill the RR. Laying out the track on the ground showed me if that would work.
In the end, I liked doing it this way. I wound up with a dog bone layout raised about four inches above terrain at the rear and maybe six inches above terrain at the front to make a nearly level RR. Later I added a small yard off one loop, and a long passing siding (actually two electrical blocks) at the front.
My survey showed I could put a visual break (Red Mountain) inside one turn back, which I elevated about ten inches and planted with dwarf Alberta spruce, micro-miniature roses and ground cover. The survey showed I could put a loop of track on Red Mountain, which I did.
While I do not favor “paralysis by analysis,” some planning is a really good idea for me. Your mileage (or kilometrage) may vary.
OK, I ceat, you see I am a surveyor and have my own toys! But the orginial layout was by eye and I goofed at a couple places and have a couple of places that cause some operational problems. However the other day I thought about an elevated branch in to the shed, keep the track off the concrete floor and my wife held the rod while I took several shots to establish a ground profile. Now all I need is about a 6 % grade to get into and shed and have the yard abou24 to 30 inched high. I’m not sure that is what I wnat to do but i’m still thinking about it.
Paul
Devon Sinsley said:
I played with Anyrail for about 5 or 6 hours to layout my track plan and there was a learning curve but I finally figured out how to get all the track connected and to a steady percentage and with my minimum curves. I set the limits and was able to get my grade crossing height and then messed with virtually raising and lower track until I got steady smooth percentages. I am no expert by any means. i got it to do what I wanted and haven’t looked back. It is also a very simple double loop design.
20 years ago I started using CADrail . But I was not averse to trying x number of layout design programs down the years. Trying out AnyRail in 2011 made me decide that it had a few raisins that were right up my alley. One of them being that David updates/expands the program in a very rapid fashion and incorporates a lot of the features that the users suggest/request.
A lot of the improvements resulted by suggesting how “things” work in a CAD program and posting relevant work-arounds (step by step how-to examples) to make things easier, until the “new and improved” update showed up.
On connecting the track: you mean you didn’t use flex track? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)
I laid out a garden hose in the yard, and used my 2 foot level to check the grade at various places along its length. I also used a water level to figure out the rise from where the planned cut started, to the summit, to make sure it wasn’t going to be too steep. It was, so the loop was moved out further and the cut extended. That hose laid in the yard for a year while I waited for Aristo to make the wide radius stainless steel switches. When they arrived digging began. I found a root up on the summit I didn’t plan on. In retrospect I should have known it was there. So the whole railroad was raised about 1/2 inch for decent clearance over the root (with ample room for growth). My biggest mistake was making an S curve so the track could pass between an existing gap in the rock wall. That has since been fixed by raising the railroad another inch and throwing a bridge over the rock wall.
I laid the track when my mom was away on a weekend trip. when she came home she said “I didn’t know the railroad was going to be that big”. I guess she didn’t see that old garden hose laying in the yard for a year.
I worked with my topography using a garden hose, a 2 foot level with step block and a water level. So you can work out a super accurate site plan, with accurate topographical information, or work with it as you go, keeping the track at a set grade. But don’t get lost in the planning and forget to lay track. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
On connecting the track: you mean you didn’t use flex track? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)
I did use flex in laces but used established curves and turnouts. I couldn’t get the hang of bending the track very well.
Devon Sinsley said:
Hans-Joerg Mueller said:
On connecting the track: you mean you didn’t use flex track? (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-surprised.gif)
I did use flex in laces but used established curves and turnouts. I couldn’t get the hang of bending the track very well.
But there is a function in AnyRail to smooth flex track. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)i.e. connect the flex track between two points, pre-bend approximately and then smooth. Results in very nicely flowing track.
Well, just great. Now I am deep into AnyRail and enjoying the heck out of it. It seems to me that I can even lay down an image of the existing terrain for guidance. Have not quite got the hang of establishing elevations yet… Anyrail thinks I am designing a roller coaster!
Hmmm… Roller coaster… No! Must focus.
Sorry for getting you sidetracked. I have only played just a bit with it in the free demo. It was fun.
I just remembered a ‘water level’ I used when I was working on part of my RR. Two clear tubes with a male and female hose connectors. A long flexible rubber hose and fill with water until the is water in both clear tubes and then walk around and measure with a tape measure down to the ground at each point of terrain feature or tree or Big rock. If you want to draw contours (lines of equal elevation) then layout a square grid of stakes and measure down at each one, draw the grid and then interpolate between the points. That used to be the way I did it for lot site plans.
Paul
E. Paul Austin said:
I just remembered a ‘water level’ I used when I was working on part of my RR. Two clear tubes with a male and female hose connectors. A long flexible rubber hose and fill with water until the is water in both clear tubes and then walk around and measure with a tape measure down to the ground at each point of terrain feature or tree or Big rock. If you want to draw contours (lines of equal elevation) then layout a square grid of stakes and measure down at each one, draw the grid and then interpolate between the points. That used to be the way I did it for lot site plans.
Paul
Did you learn that method from General Washington?
Well, I went low tech. String, line level, tape measure. As eyeballed, the rise is 36". The depth of the site is 24’, with 19’ being the slope. With a width of 20’, I should be able to loop back and forth to climb with an average slope of 5%. Actually, I can probably even get away with less slope.
Next on the menu: Deer exclusion and persuading my dear that trimming the big rosemary is required for the future of the railroad.
