David Maynard said:
… and even the pilot (pony) truck on my Heartland 4-4-0.
Hmm, don’t remember if I’ve done anything to my little PRR one. Will have to go look.
The B’mann 4-6-0s got drapery weights stacked above each pilot axle.
The Heartland originally came with plastic wheels in the pony truck and a lead weight on the truck. I purchased a new pony truck, from Heartland, with metal wheels in it, but it came without the lead weight. The lead weight in the original truck wouldn’t work on the new truck, the axle slots weren’t large enough and so the wheels would not turn. So, I weighted it with my lead shot.
Hey there. In the meantime went and looked at mine. Metal wheels, no weights, and quite a bit of dust because I hadn’t thought to dust down there during the several years its been out on a shelf.
Are several holes in bottom sheet of truck molding, guess thing to do is build a box to put weight in then place in truck between sideframes.
(while we’re talking Hartland, I wouldn’t mind having about five hundred dollars worth of leftover laundromat quarters who have no previous engagements)
Speaking of Hartland and weight, have 9 of their 4-wheel all-plastic mini ore dump cars which need weight. Metal wheels are a start, have yet to get any, but do have from little burg’s local hardware store some large washers to glue up under the car floor. Washers are of a diameter which just barely fits between a car’s side sills.
Not yet sure what to glue it to car with.
Sean McGillicuddy said:
Have you thought of putting some weight in that c channel/center beam?
Yes but at this point I have to ask why would I. I am worried about them approaching being too heavy. But yes that has come to mind. I started out wanting to hide as much as I can. And I think I have succeeded in doing just that
David Marconi said:
BB’s in the 4 cross channels capped with clay to keep them tight. Even some part way up the upright channels (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)
The entire bunk is being designed to be cast. The choice will be resin or white metal. Four of those bunks in white metal will add a lot of weight.
I am forgetting how large those rack castings are in G scale, for some reason HO scale is sticking in my head; maybe because model train club’s open house is tomorrow and I’m working on some HO for it. Yes, those racks will have some noticeable mass in this scale!
I have the master just about built in styrene. If I have to take a stab I bet I get almost 1/2 a pound when I finally pour them in pewter. That would only be 2oz per bunk. Bet they are heavier. So I am at 1# 11 ounces right now. Add half a pound and these cars empty will be 2 1/4 to 2 1/2 pounds. No piece of rolling stock I currently have even comes close to being this heavy.
So I will start there that should be more than heavy enough.
I don’t remember if it’s been said what kind of grades are on the RR where these would be run.
Locomotive hauling capacity drops exponentially on grades - and I’ve read where models can pull proportionally more on grades but less on level than real locomotives can.
By way of illustration, this, though for steam and from a reprint of H.K. Porter Light Locomotives catalog of earlier to mid 1900s, shows the idea. Diesels would be a few percentage points different, and I want to remember them being less severely affected, but the overall concept holds true.
A 72 tons in working order 2-6-0 and tender with 18,495 pounds of tractive force is rated for 2,770 tons on the level and 325 on 2% grade.
And I have a book on Milwaukee Road’s electrification which mentions on paralleling NP tracks there was a 4% grade where a big Z-something class, 2-8-8-something, mallet was rated to haul only 600 tons on that grade.
(and that brings to mind the posts on HO and On30 forums of "My brand new 4-4-0 locomotive is defective, or at least shoddily made, it can’t pull 12 cars up my 5% grades!)
"My brand new 4-4-0 locomotive is defective, or at least shoddily made, it can’t pull 12 cars up my 5% grades!
Yup, it sounds defective to me. After all, mainline railroads seldom go over 2% grade. And 4-4-0s were known for their awesome pulling power. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)(with tongue firmly planted in my cheek)
3% is the max and a twisty 3 at that. I know on my line compromise is must. If I only get to pull a couple at a time well I have to live with that. My dream of a string of empties might be reserved to trips to friends houses.
OK so I have a question. Do you only plan on running these cars empty? Because if you make them to heavy , then add a load you’ll never be able to pull them. The car looks great and I wouldn’t go over board with the weight issue. The fact that you’re putting metal wheels on the car will keep the center of balance under the cars where it needs to be. You keep the trucks somewhat loose and you shouldn’t have any problems.
I have several smaller light weight cars that only have metal wheel and the body mounted Kadee couplers and I’ve never had an issue with them coming off the track in a 15 to 20 car long train on different railroads. Just my 2 cents, Devon.
My layout is flat, with large curves on the outer loop. I don’t see anything wrong with traction tires. My MTH engines have them and I really don’t notice.
Chuck Inlow said:
OK so I have a question. Do you only plan on running these cars empty? Because if you make them to heavy , then add a load you’ll never be able to pull them. The car looks great and I wouldn’t go over board with the weight issue. The fact that you’re putting metal wheels on the car will keep the center of balance under the cars where it needs to be. You keep the trucks somewhat loose and you shouldn’t have any problems.
I have several smaller light weight cars that only have metal wheel and the body mounted Kadee couplers and I’ve never had an issue with them coming off the track in a 15 to 20 car long train on different railroads. Just my 2 cents, Devon.
This is at the heart of it for me. I want to be able to run them empty in a string of up to 15 or so. If not on my railroad at least somewhere (and maybe only when I can double up the geeps on the front). I realize loaded that will be drastically reduced. But I will run them full also, hence my concern of being over weight. I think they need to be as light as possible but still run smoothly. So far all the weight is down low which is nice. I was tickled with how much lead I got into them the way they sit.
I think at this point I am done adding weight. The bunks will start out resin. I can always switch them out later. I am going to make the mold in high temp silicon either way so that I have that option.
Forrest Scott Wood said:
I don’t remember if it’s been said what kind of grades are on the RR where these would be run.
Locomotive hauling capacity drops exponentially on grades - and I’ve read where models can pull proportionally more on grades but less on level than real locomotives can.By way of illustration, this, though for steam and from a reprint of H.K. Porter Light Locomotives catalog of earlier to mid 1900s, shows the idea. Diesels would be a few percentage points different, and I want to remember them being less severely affected, but the overall concept holds true.
A 72 tons in working order 2-6-0 and tender with 18,495 pounds of tractive force is rated for 2,770 tons on the level and 325 on 2% grade.
And I have a book on Milwaukee Road’s electrification which mentions on paralleling NP tracks there was a 4% grade where a big Z-something class, 2-8-8-something, mallet was rated to haul only 600 tons on that grade.(and that brings to mind the posts on HO and On30 forums of "My brand new 4-4-0 locomotive is defective, or at least shoddily made, it can’t pull 12 cars up my 5% grades!)
Consider also that the cars change from rolling resistance to negative weight as gravity pulls in the opposite direction.
Seeing as you seem to have the time…
John
Well we have hashed this to death. I am done adding weight to it until I see how they run. By the time its done it will be pretty close to 2# empty. Add logs and these things will be pretty heavy.
With that said I decided to make the bunks from resin. I used my regular rubber and made a mold of it tonight. I have resin but I am suspect that it is no good. Might have to order some.
Hmm
Can you put wire in the resin to give it some back bone?
Go to the place (where ever that is) that services Pinewood Derby cars and get the weights they sell. Small size, with peel off stickum on the back. Just ask any Cubmaster.
Steve, hobby shops that cater to RC aircraft sell them too. I have a small drawer full of them.
Alcobra metals on the north side sold me a 3" by 48" long piece of .030 sheet lead for $8. I can cut it to fit where ever I want. Lead wool I got from work but it looks like steel wool can be mashed into all kinds of places even more versatile that shot and glue.
I really recommend lead sheets of you ave a local supplier. The beauty of that stuff is it comes in a variety of thickness and can be trimmed to fit. I mean you look at the car above and it has almost half a pound of lead in it and you can’t tell where it is. I like that.
And Sean why add wire to the resin casting? Resin is pretty stiff and durable. Unless your planning to be real rough with them it should easily hold up to normal wear and tear of placing logs on them especially with four of them. I don;t think it will be an issue of strength or rigidity. But to answer your question it would be simple to add a wire to the form and pour around it. I would have to relieve the form to accept the wire and then when its poured trim off where it is supported. It would be pretty simple to do.
Steve,
If you don’t know about Alcobra you need too. They are just south of Francis on the street east of the RR track overpass. They sell all sorts of metal and plastics and will cut you off whatever you want. They also have a large supply of cut offs they sell cheap (that’s what my lead was). They don’t always have what your looking for but its always worth a shot.