Large Scale Central

Off the grid

Electronics Power and Sound
#21

Devon,

A little quick research reveals 1870 and thereafter steel fan blades came to be with the need for speed reducers due to there efficiency compared to wood. Railroads commonly used wind powered water pumps, some where huge with 60’ rotor diameter!

Are you thinking a G scale windmill or larger? I suspect a typical G scale farm windmill will be anemic due to rotor size, BUT a scale 60’ rotor would be 25" in 1/29, just sayin. Might be scary…

The Hitec X4 consumes 30A MAX, typical needs for you will be less than halve that. I saw several 12VDC/100Watt/5Amp solar panel systems complete with controller for less than $150.00.

Michael

#22

Michael Glavin said:

Devon,

A little quick research reveals 1870 and thereafter steel fan blades came to be with the need for speed reducers due to there efficiency compared to wood. Railroads commonly used wind powered water pumps, some where huge with 60’ rotor diameter!

Are you thinking a G scale windmill or larger? I suspect a typical G scale farm windmill will be anemic due to rotor size, BUT a scale 60’ rotor would be 25" in 1/29, just sayin. Might be scary…

The Hitec X4 consumes 30A MAX, typical needs for you will be less than halve that. I saw several 12VDC/100Watt/5Amp solar panel systems complete with controller for less than $150.00.

Michael

Michael,

I wasn’t thinking a scale windmill. I was thinking a 1:1 windmill of whatever size would be practical. Within my layout area there will be some practical real world features. The train shed will be a two story “signal tower” with a train shed on the bottom and a little play house upstairs for layout viewing as well as some bunk beds. I also will be building a little water tower out of a 55 gallon plastic drum and dressing it up to look like a 1880’s water tank. So a small windmill will fit right in. I will likely have the windmill for show anyways if I can make one turn a generator instead of pump water all the better.

I have to say this is all a list of ideas, I have a blank slate and a track plan. It will have to happen in stages likely over years. However I do want to plan out each element so that it will fit when I do decide to put it in. I want my layout area to look like a little 1880’s western scene. I have to fence it off to keep the four legged friends out of the layout and have even considered making the fence a false saloon front. Like I said all big ideas that will happen as time and money allows. Big dreams that will take a while to accomplish.

A metal bladed fan on a wooden tower could be way cool. RPM can be an issue, I know wind generators aren’t high RPM affairs.

#23

Devon Sinsley said:

A metal bladed fan on a wooden tower could be way cool. RPM can be an issue, I know wind generators aren’t high RPM affairs.

I did notice that on of the boat windmill generators uses regenerative braking to prevent over-speeding ! How smart is that,

#24

I have a nice 6 foot tall, all metal, windmill that I picked up at the local garden center. The fan blade is maybe a foot in diameter. Some days it doesn’t turn much, but when there is a decent breeze, it really hums. I haven’t tried hooking a generator to it, but I have pondered the idea.

#25

I have both solar and wind generators at my house. They are rated similarly, however the solar out performs the wind mill by leaps and bounds. Unless you live where your cars are always being blown off the tracks the wind will not be enough unless you have a big windmill designed to charge batteries… Sailboats often have a windmill to charge their batteries… Three or four foot diameter blades that turn fast in a strong breeze. My home windmill has 9 foot diameter blades and a 30 foot tower. The boat generators are not silent but swish, hum and whine.

Go with solar!

#26

Eric Schade said:

I have both solar and wind generators at my house. They are rated similarly, however the solar out performs the wind mill by leaps and bounds. Unless you live where your cars are always being blown off the tracks the wind will not be enough unless you have a big windmill designed to charge batteries… Sailboats often have a windmill to charge their batteries… Three or four foot diameter blades that turn fast in a strong breeze. My home windmill has 9 foot diameter blades and a 30 foot tower. The boat generators are not silent but swish, hum and whine.

Go with solar!

Thanks for the real world assessment. While I am not doing a whole house system I see your point about solar over wind. I was wondering if the size of the windmill I would want and being constructed like an old water pump which is a less efficient design than the fancy aerodynamic jobs made for this sort of thing would be prohibitive. I will stick with solar and just build a cute windmill for show. No need to get to carried away.

Thanks for the advice.

#27

Devon Sinsley said: No need to get to carried away.

That why I follow the KISS method!

#28

Good assessment Eric, But I can’t help wondering how much more productive your windmill would be up another 30 or 40 feet. 9 Foot is pretty good area. I still doubt it would surpass the solar But it might give it a better run for the money.

I wouldn’t mind a water feature on my pike some day I just don’t want to “waste” electric to do it. A green energy source would make me feel much better about it.

#29

Randy Lehrian Jr. said:

Good assessment Eric, But I can’t help wondering how much more productive your windmill would be up another 30 or 40 feet. 9 Foot is pretty good area. I still doubt it would surpass the solar But it might give it a better run for the money.

I wouldn’t mind a water feature on my pike some day I just don’t want to “waste” electric to do it. A green energy source would make me feel much better about it.

A small water feature is one of the things planned for the solar system (ha ha). I want a little creek and there are several small 12v pumps out there that put out between 1-2 gallons a minute with only a modest amp draw. I think this will make a fine little stream. I will put it on a switch so it only runs when I am out there.

#30

Interesting conversation.

FWIW, for windmills & propellers & rotating force-related things like that, contact area is key. The contact area doesn’t increase linearly by the increase of radius of the blades, but by the square of the increase in radius. Other factors being equal, a 4’ diameter blade (~50.2 sf) is only 1/3 larger than a 3’ diameter blade (~28.3 sf), but is almost twice the theoretical contact area, and therefore ~2x the “efficiency” in energy transfer. A 6’ diameter blade (~113 sf) is 2x the 3’ diameter, but 4x the area / efficiency.

I’m no expert, but that’s what I’m recalling from an earlier turbine project.

#31

Yup if that tower was 10-20 feet taller it sure would help. I could have got a 60 foot tower but would have had to pay for a dedicated extra long truck all the way from New Mexico… Nearly as expensive as the windmill(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-frown.gif) the fifty footer shipped in prices for a couple hundred dollars. I just chose the highest point of land and cast a 4 foot lump of concrete. Best I could do.

#32

Devon Sinsley said:

Randy Lehrian Jr. said:

Good assessment Eric, But I can’t help wondering how much more productive your windmill would be up another 30 or 40 feet. 9 Foot is pretty good area. I still doubt it would surpass the solar But it might give it a better run for the money.

I wouldn’t mind a water feature on my pike some day I just don’t want to “waste” electric to do it. A green energy source would make me feel much better about it.

A small water feature is one of the things planned for the solar system (ha ha). I want a little creek and there are several small 12v pumps out there that put out between 1-2 gallons a minute with only a modest amp draw. I think this will make a fine little stream. I will put it on a switch so it only runs when I am out there.

Too much work, there are self contained solar powered fountains that would be easier to modify and you wouldn’t need to switch anything other than adding a float level somewhere. Use a cheap toilet float valve for water admission in a secret place …

http://www.hayneedle.com/product/storemanagerschoiceblueceramiccascadewaterfountain.cfm

This seems to have the head (lift) necessary.

John

#33

I like that plan.