I could fix them for you, but would it be worth the postage?
Yes, I would expect what I purchase to work right, right out of the box. But Aristocraft cured me of that silly notion.
What Joe and David said.
I find that the good stuff just fails less often. Nothing perfect, although the QC on the old LGB was damn good.
Greg
I’m in Manufacturing/Production Quality Assurance in the electronics and medical device fields. So maybe I have a different “attitude” or different take on things than you guys. If I’m paying a good chunk o’ change for something, I expect good quality. And Large Scale can empty a wallet quickly. Most of my LGB engines and cars and USA Trains reefers were bought new, and I’ve never had to touch them other than to glue handrails and put metal wheels on them - right outta the box. Even the cars I’ve bought on Ebay - if they say “New” or “Used” on the add before I buy, that’s what I expect! The cars I’ve bought used and at swap meets - I take them home and rework them and do what I have to to make them in “Like New” condition. One time I got mad at a guy on the East coast for not packing a car correctly and I received it damaged. Other than that, I expect to receive what I pay for. That’s how I am. Shoot me!
I know what you guys are saying, though, and you’re right of course. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-laughing.gif)
David Maynard said:
I could fix them for you, but would it be worth the postage?
Yes, I would expect what I purchase to work right, right out of the box. But Aristocraft cured me of that silly notion.
Half kidding, David. I still regret spending 16 bucks to ship my wheel rejects to Bachmann. They paid the postage back, but still…I shouldn’t have to send back anything that’s new for replacement/repair.
I agree that nothing new should not need replacement or repair, but cheaper stuff will have a higher incidence of returns.
The level of expectations of the quality of the product and the QA of the product should be in line with the cost of the product. You don’t buy a Yugo and expect the wheels to be balanced for 100 mph, but you do if you buy a Mercedes.
In this case you have bought the Yugo… the Bachmann wheels are the cheapest out there.
Greg
I agree that new items should not need repaired. But, the world doesn’t seam to work that way. I also think stuff should be properly tested before it goes into full scale production, but I know the world doesn’t work that way either.
I have been in the copier industry for 23 years, and every new machine has a list of updates that come out in the first year or two of production. Some of the updates really torque me off, because the “new” part bolts into the machine, and there are already threaded holes in the machine frame for the part. So the frame was designed for the part, but some bean counter decided to save money by not having that part installed at the factory. In the end it costs more money to ship these parts to the dealers, and have them install them after the fact.
I was also in the Quality Control department at a previous job, and when I see poor QC I have to wonder why. Yes, it costs money to inspect things, but doesn’t it also cost money to repair them under warranty, because the whole darn batch wasn’t made properly? Oh yea, that’s 2 different cost centers, so the manufacturing cost center saved money. But its all the same company, and the company wasted money.
As for the whole you get what you pay for thing, usually that is true. But more and more often that isn’t as true as it should be.
Sure the Bachmann wheels are less expensive, and I will not ever say they are as good as a top of the line manufacturers metal wheels. But, for my purpose they are good enough. They are round, they are metal, they usually come properly gauged, but not always, and they are easily fixed. So while what Greg is saying is true, the Bachmann wheels have served me well and I continue to buy and use them. So far I have not had to discard any of them for manufacturing defects.
David Maynard said:
Yes, it costs money to inspect things, but doesn’t it also cost money to repair them under warranty, because the whole darn batch wasn’t made properly? Oh yea, that’s 2 different cost centers, so the manufacturing cost center saved money. But its all the same company, and the company wasted money. Sure the Bachmann wheels are less expensive, and I will not ever say they are as good as a top of the line manufacturers metal wheels. But, for my purpose they are good enough. They are round, they are metal, they usually come properly gauged, but not always, and they are easily fixed. So while what Greg is saying is true, the Bachmann wheels have served me well and I continue to buy and use them.
Exactly.
I put Gary Raymond wheels on my LGB passenger cars back in the 90’s, so I know the difference between his wheels and the Bachmann wheels. It’s just that now, Gary is charging literally twice as much for wheelsets as the cost of Bachmann’s (in bulk) so I’m now sacrificing top shelf quality for bottom shelf quality. That’s not like me, but we’re not quite comparing high-end OLED TV sets here either.
And I haven’t even put Kadee couplers on most of the cars yet. That’s even more of a cost incurred if I want to make them look real nice.
Michael, yes, I know it gets expensive to upgrade rolling stock. When I took the plunge into KaDees, I did it in stages. My narrow gauge freight went to KaDees first. My passenger stock went to Bachmann and my standard gauge mainline stuff went to Aristocraft couplers. Because I had those couplers left over, in enough quantity, to use them in the interim. Then with my next batch purchase of KaDees, my mainline stuff went KaDee. Then with my next batch purchase, the passenger stuff went KaDee, as well as any stragglers. So it probably took me 3 years to get everything converted. And that was before I amassed the collection I have now. So in year 4, or maybe it was year 5, I bought a batch of KaDees to have on the shelf for “future” needs.
At the same time, USA wheels were $2.50 for 2 axles. I bought over $75 dollars worth at a train show, and my arms were really sore by the time I carried the bag of them back to my Jeep. Then the price of USA wheels went up, and I found that a case of Bachamnn metal wheels was a less expensive upgrade for my rolling stock.
I also found, that no matter what wheels I purchased, USA, Aristo, Bachmann, that I had to check and set the gauge on them. Most were over gauge. The exception being LGB wheels. They were almost always spot on. Again, you get what you pay for.
Now, since I am not buying rolling stock in multiples anymore, I have laid in a supply of both KaDees and Bachmann metal wheels. But before I laid in the supplies, I usually bought wheels and KaDees with each car purchase. That way, I didn’t have a bunch of cars sitting around waiting for me to get the stuff to upgrade them.
Thanks for all the input guys…My Big Hauler passenger cars came with metal wheels and I have been running those cars lately without any issues. (As opposed to the plastic ones not taking switches very well) I think I will stick with the Bachmann wheels for now, unless I find a smoking deal on the Roll Ez ones.
On a side note about quality…my cousin worked on the GM line here in Van Nuys, Ca for many years. Everything was about cars per hour coming off the line. They were told if they couldnt get it done in their allotted space/time, let it go, the dealer will fix it under warranty. He says it still happens today, not as bad since the lines are automated now.
That’s interesting about the car assembly line, Bob. Wouldn’t be surprised if Bachmann has the same mentality.
David, I took 3 USA Trains reefer home from a Large Scale swap meet recently. They all had Gary Raymond wheels on them. So the wheels were worth half the value of the train cars, making the wheels worth the price of the cars alone! By the time you upgrade to metal wheels and Kadees on a new car, it really adds up.
Yes it does. I have purchased some cars for the parts. The parts were worth more then the car was being sold for, especially if it came with metal wheels.
Years ago, the cost of Bachamnn metal wheels was $8.33 per car (when bought by the case) and Kadees could be had for $6 or less at the shows. Now its more like $10-$12 for the wheels and nearly $8 for the KaDees. I am so glad that my fleet is upgraded and spares have been laid in. When I start to figure out what I have in the storage cabinet, it boggles my mind. At an average of $40 per car, plus upgrades, the 72 cars in my cabinet cost me a lot of money. But at a few cars a year, over 14 years, it didn’t hurt all that much. And that’s not counting what is in my garage and on the shop floor.
Bob Frein said:
Thanks for all the input guys…My Big Hauler passenger cars came with metal wheels and I have been running those cars lately without any issues. (As opposed to the plastic ones not taking switches very well) I think I will stick with the Bachmann wheels for now
(http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)
I don’t know what I’m going to do for metal wheels for some new cars. Have been using B’mann replacements for stock plastic wheels so as to standardize but would like to try some others too. Need to get around to asking HLW if they sell their metal wheelsets as parts so my minis can be converted to metal wheels and be all-HLW.
Most all my trucked rolling stock is Bachmann passenger cars and reefers with one USA Trains boxcar; one HLW passenger car; and several slooooowly in-progress scratchbuilds with either B’mann or HLW trucks.
And I’m hoping for eventually 15 to 18 HLW 4 wheel minis. Want to give them metal wheelsets for both appearance and weight. Takes a while to acquire them on SSD income.
(and now I wish I had better health and more income for train stuff so these projects could get done a few years faster than they are)
On one hand I like the Heartland metal wheels, they have the nice ribbed backs, and nice face detail. But they have plastic axles, and I wonder how those will hold up over the long run. Also, the way the metal wheels are keyed onto the plastic axles, makes it more time consuming to regauge the wheels if they are over-gauge, and all I have used have been over-gauge.
Another metal wheel-set that hasn’t been mentioned here are the new KaDee metal wheels. From what have seen they do look nice. But they are a bit pricey. I haven’t purchased any, so I do not know how good they are, or aren’t.
So now the $100k question??? Where is the best place to buy them at a reasonable price? Bachmann has them for $7 per axle…$28 per car…OUCH!
Found some on Ebay for anywhere from $18-30 plus shipping for a 4 pack.
Suggestions?
Has anyone ever contacted a local machine shop to see how much it would be to do a custom run of axles and wheels? Just curious if the pricing would be similar.
Just received a new box of Bachmann 92421 wheels, and out of 8 axels, 2 are wobblers.
Where’s David. I gotta sit down and learn to fix these on my own…
Michael Kirrene said:
Just received a new box of Bachmann 92421 wheels, and out of 8 axels, 2 are wobblers.
Where’s David. I gotta sit down and learn to fix these on my own…
Oh my…I hope I have better luck. I just bought six boxes of four packs in each box from the same source. I’ll let you know my results this weekend.
Yours truly in trepidation (and beginning to feel like an idiot),
John Passaro.
I usually get mine from Starr Hobby.
Like I said, once you figure out what wheel wobbles, you can pull it off the axle. I was even able to fix a set simply by pressing the plastic hub firmly into the wheel with a pair of pliers. If that doesn’t work, you can drive the insert out with a steel rod, or in my case, a nail with the point ground off, trim the flashing off the hub and press it back into the wheel straight.
Did all of that, David, but didn’t use a rod and nail to drive it out. I just pulled the axle out of the hub. The plastic hubs fit snug, flush, and even in the hole in the wheel. No extraneous material (flash) was found around the perimeter of the hub. That’s why I gave up and sent the last batch back to Bachmann because I couldn’t find anything obvious that could be fixed. Maybe I’m missing something. Some of these wheels spin like the Gary Raymond’s, some don’t. I don’t think the axles are bent or the wheels out of round!
John, you’re getting your wheels from the same source. Let’s see if you see the same thing I do with these wheels or if I’m expecting too much and being picky.