Terry - On the diesel sounds there is a “working” sound. Not sure if steam sounds have something similar. What is your control on the K? It may have some type of current related trigger for the sound board.
EDIT to add: Just looked at the programming for a steam sound. There is a “drifting” effect plus a lot of options under Chuff. You might load up the sound from your K into the software and make notes of the settings; then compare to your other boards.
Terry Burr said:
I have a B mann K27 with phoenix sound. The sound has a setting turned on that my others don’t. It has an effect like back emf when the loco isn’t working hard the chuff quiets down and when the loco starts working say, uphill climb it really starts to pound.
Any idea which setting this is? Because i really like the effect and I’d like to do it to my others.
T
Terry,
I have Phoenix P5 cards in my steam engines. You can set a function key for “drifting” under the EFFECTS tab in the software (my engines are set at F5). I use Airwire 5000 controllers. For the chuff effects, go to CHUFF, CHUFF 1 and CHUFF 2. There you can set the volume for a deep chuff for starting out and climbing a good stiff grade. These changes make all the difference in the world with Phoenix sound. BUT you can spend literally hours playing around with these sounds alone. It gets addictive after a while. 
My loco with the best sound has to be the Bachmann Davenport with a Zimo and Heinz Daeppen sound. The engine start sequence is particularly impressive. There is some kind of interference problem between the Zimo and the Airwire Convrtr at times and this seems to have changed a setting at one point that causes the engine revs to increase too soon, so even at slow speeds it now seems to be running in “1st gear” all the time. Even a reset did not fix that.
Second is the Bachmann Rail Truck with the same setup. It sounds great, but the interference is even worse. Esp. in reverse the sound occasionally stutters and the radio range is only a few metres.
Last, I have a Piko BR204 diesel, Airwire G3 and Massoth sound. Not very realistic at all, but the radio works much better, thanks to external antenna and lower voltage battery. Once under way the engine just makes a howling sound, not at all like what I hear in videos of the real thing.
Recently I got an old Aristo F ABA set (cheap). I’m now considering my options for that. Not sure I want to put in 3 complete sets of receivers and decoders. Quickly poking around the net the nicest sound seems to be TCS’ decoders. To get the most out of them means I have to use their motor controller as well and the only way I can see to drive that with Airwire would be the Tam Valley receiver.
Terry, also play with the Johnson Bar effect on the Phoenix. This is a finicky control, but the effect is very nice once it’s dialed in properly. Too little, and you don’t hear any change between accelerating and decelerating. Too much, and you’ll hear the chuffs all but disappear when decelerating (like you’d want), but then at a point it goes haywire, and you get this odd, flatulent sound instead of a chuff. This is one of those controls where it definitely helps to have the chuff triggers on the driven axles, and the loco up on rollers to program.
Peter, the combination you have in your first video is exactly what I’m planning on putting into my LGB Davenport over the winter. Is there a point in the video where we can hear the “1st gear” effect you describe? I didn’t hear anything that seemed particularly out of sorts, but I don’t know what I should be listening for, either.
Later,
K
Kevin, the problem appeared later, after the video was taken. But even so, I think that at higher speeds the sound doesn’t change any more as the speed increases. Of course, the prototype probably was a very slow machine in the first place. Still, I got the impression that the decoder settings changed suddenly at some point and a reset to defaults did not fix this.
I have Convrtr boards with internal antenna and I think I would not choose that again. The rail truck, in particular, seems to suffer from interference and a pathetic radio range. I read about this after I did the truck and in the Davenport and in the 204 I twisted most of the wires (like phone wiring). Perhaps it helps. CVP write that the higher the voltage of the battery the more chance of interference. The 204 has a G3 receiver with external antenna and only an 11V battery, whereas the others have 14.8V.
Thanks. I’ve got the Convertr/Tsunami combo in my Berlyn goose, with an external antenna. The gearing on that is such that it need 14.8 volts to move at anything above a crawl, but I’ve nothing to compare the range to in order to see if it may be better at lower voltages. I do get the occasional errant horn blow as it’s running around the railroad, but beyond that, the range is on par with other Airwire installations (G2 and G3, no other Convetrs). My Davenport project will be running on 11 volts, so maybe I’ll notice a difference. I also just picked up an LGB Porter for dirt cheap, so I’ll be doing a similar installation with that, probably with a TCS or Econami board.
Later,
K
Hi guys, are you telling me you tolerate poor range on the Airwire Systems at these restricted voltages? If this is true, you will experience better range using the RailLinx system. I thought when CVP changed to the Texas Instrument chip it does not have the range of the Linx radio chip. I know we are the new guy on the block, but!
I am a stickler for at least 60’ minimum range under full load (18.5V @ 4-6 amps)and that is without the 3" wire antenna. Add the Linx external antenna for more range. We use the Splatch chip mounted antenna. I have seen in AirWire and QSI the horn sticks on. In radio control it seems the horn/whistle is the first to indicate loss of range. When we lose range the horn will be a short blast rather than play as long as you want.
To clarify, does this scenario only happen with DCC decoders?
I am curious if there are others with experiences from reduced radio range using 900 MHz or 2.4GHz radio gear?
Thanks, Don
When I was using the Airwire, I got terrible range. When I operate, I follow the train, so range is seldom an issue. But, other times I’ll just let the locomotive run around and it’s then that I want to be able to control it.
The Airwire just wouldn’t do it. I have a small yard, but it just wouldn’t work past 25 feet or so. Not only that, but I could never get my locos to run the way I wanted. I experimented with a bunch of CV values, but the locomotive would always run away when going down grade. I finally gave up and said good bye to the Airwire. It was nice being able to implement a lot of the Phoenix board options, but as far as sound goes, I find that chuff, bell, and whistle are enough.
Hmmm, “tolerate”? Let’s put it this way: I don’t feel like re-wiring the rail truck, so I can twist the wires, which I suspect would help. My soldering skills are poor. The Davenport just about achieves your 60’ = 20m, the G3 board definitely does. My layout is still under construction, so I have simply put the truck aside for now, into the too-hard basket.
I am in NZ. There are no suppliers of train radio gear in the country (or resellers for most brands of LS equipment, for that matter). We have to import most things ourselves, so it costs about double of what you pay. Which means I can’t take it back to a dealer to fix or replace. If I know for certain it’s faulty I will have to send it back to the US and wear the postage both ways. The joys of living in paradise ®.
My Convrtrs still have the Linx chip, I think. We are only talking about 900 MHz equipment here, not 2.4GHz, which I believe works a lot better and is probably legal here. The 900 most probably is not.
I bought this setup, so I can have “wireless DCC”. After the demise of G-Wire, CVP and Tam Valley are the only ones left. In theory, Convrtr gives me full DCC functionality, incl. functions and sound. I can’t see any other system that would give me that.
I concur with your observations about the horn failing indicating range problems. When you press that button you expect an instant response, which you don’t get at the limit. I suspect that the speed change signal is transmitted continuously, so the loco will react, eventually. 
The Crest Revolution is popular here, probably because it works well and gives you a lot of what you get with DCC, but wireless. I just wanted to have that Davenport sound!
Regards,
Peter.
Say mate,
I loved the little I saw of your country on my way to and from Antarctica.
Is it as bad buying from Australia?
Check out Tony’s R/C;
http://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/23840/rcs-has-2-x-new-tx-handpieces
He is also a sponsor here and very knowledgeable.
John
Definitely, the Airwire-based stuff I use has shorter reliable range when compared to the newer 2.4gHz controls on the market. I use the Crest Revolution combined with the Phoenix sound boards in many of my locos, and I’m very happy with the results, Per the “Link OK” icon on the screen, I have contact with the locomotive pretty much anywhere in the yard and into the house.
At issue, though, these newer-generation DCC sound/motor boards are now every bit as good as Phoenix when it comes to sound, and I like the flexibility they offer in terms of really finding a sound that specifically suits the individual locomotive. To control those, the Airwire-based receivers are the only game in town, so it’s not so much a matter of “tolerating” the lesser range, but of having no other choice. I’d love there to be a 2.4gHz control option for these DCC boards, but I’m thrilled enough to have the 900mHz Airwire-based options we do have.
Having said that, I’ve not found the range limitations with the Airwire-based equipment to be problematic for the way I run my trains. Like Bruce, I’m seldom more than 20 - 30’ away from my locomotives. That’s within the “reliable” range of pretty much all my Airwire-based installations. I do get “drop outs” every now and then, but they’re not consistent, and resolve themselves simply by the train continuing on its way, changing the orientation between the receiver and transmitter. If I’m just “watching 'em run,” then I’ve likely sat the transmitter down somewhere and am not worried about those drop-outs because I’m not actively controlling the train.
Later,
K
In DCC, the horn is one of those commands that is not transmitted continuously.
There are things called “stop” packets, and you can set the number of “horn stop packets”, which are normally increased when transferring DCC wirelessly. Just set more stop packets if you use AirWire… pretty typical.
Greg
John Caughey said:
Is it as bad buying from Australia?
I'm not sure, but I think postage from Oz to NZ is more than from the US, plus prices are higher.
@ Greg: thanks for the tip, but I can't find any reference in the (very light weight) T5000 user manual. I'm guessing this has to be set in the Tx? Do you have a docu reference where I can look up how to do that? Thanks!
@ Joe Rusz: Sorry, I seem to have inadvertently highjacked your topic. Let's get back to that: Do your locos sound realistic?
Kind regards,
Peter.
Peter, you are correct I asked about range and I will move that discussion to a new topic.
Joe Rusz and others, my thoughts on sound where formed from many years being in the Audio business selling high end equipment. I quickly learned we all hear a little differently so there will be many opinions.
As for chuffing, volume levels of whistles/horns, bells, coal shoveling sounds and all other sounds, I have found the Phoenix P8 and can be adjusted using the computer interface and is a good buy. If you do not have the interface hopefully there is a local store or club member who can help. I always offer that service to reprogram any Phoenix boards but need your loco for best results.
As others have stated the chuff can be adjusted to prevent the over saturation of the input. First try using 2 magnets instead of 4 to create the chuff sound. This might eliminate the motor boating sound at higher speeds. Also move the magnets further apart. If you mount them on a thin axle the circumference might be to small around causing poor chuffing. You might need to glue the magnets on the back of the wheels to gain more distance away from the reed switch. Watch the side rods on your engine to identify the rotation distance/time it takes for one rotation. This distance is larger than the small tender wheels or axles. It is tricky to reproduce that rotation on tender wheels. Bachmann Locos have made it easier with their built in chuff triggers. The Locos with the socket have a 2 or 4 chuffs switch.
Kevin, this could be the start of a very interesting article you can publish. As digital technology makes sound better and better, we could explore what has improved and who uses what, i.e. analog, digital and DCC. Of course we need to keep pushing the manufacturers to update their systems.
Have fun running your trains.
Don
Thanks, all, for the advice, tips, etc. Upon further review, as they say in the NFL, I’ve found my old Phoenix system’s chuff does not mush over at speed and sounds OK, using two contacts on the driver’s axle. Of course, with only 14 volts (or less?) of battery power, the loco probably doesn’t go fast enough to cause the chuffs to run together. Right now, the whistle and bell are not being triggered because the Aristo controller I’m using isn’t able to actuate anything more than stop/go and speed. But I swear that there’s a program built into the Phoenix 97 that, when running only speed, actuates the crossing whistle if you suddenly decelerate after cruising at a fast or moderate speed. I’ve tried doing that and nada. All the system does is, when you slow to a crawl, automatically actuate the cylinder blowoff and ultimately, rings the bell. Of course, it toots once, when the loco stops. But then all you guys know this, right?
Joe, I do not know about the Phoenix. But the Sierra boards will sound the whistle/ horn if there is a sudden increase in power. With the Aristo TE, I can usually blow the whistle/horn by holding down the decrease speed butting for a count of 4, and then holding the increase speed button for a count of 4. That triggers the board, without a net increase of train speed. But that’s the Sierra, I don’t know if the Phoenix works in a similar fashion.
David Maynard said:
Joe, I do not know about the Phoenix. But the Sierra boards will sound the whistle/ horn if there is a sudden increase in power. With the Aristo TE, I can usually blow the whistle/horn by holding down the decrease speed butting for a count of 4, and then holding the increase speed button for a count of 4. That triggers the board, without a net increase of train speed. But that’s the Sierra, I don’t know if the Phoenix works in a similar fashion.
My Phoenix '97 is also doing this.