Large Scale Central

Bitg Train Show, Ontario CA

I agree with the lack of presence. Years ago the garden center used to have the Aristo little critter sets. Marshall’s sold the Lehman toy train series for a short time. Now, if I see a large scale set in a retail store, its usually a very cheep toy train set. When I mention to folks that I have a garden railroad, I have a difficult time explaining the size of the equipment, because folks just don’t see the sets around. Piko, USA and even Heartland had starter sets, but again the price of the sets is a bit steep. Although the Heartland Army sets, when they were available, weren’t too bad, but I never saw one in person, anywhere.

If Kader is looking to scale back Bachmann’s large scale offerings, that would be a real shame. When Bachmann came out with the 1:29 Peter DeWitt streetcar, I was hoping that maybe that was a sign that Bachmann would have more 1:29 offerings in the future.

So we have to look to AML, USA, and other manufacturers to start trying to fill the void left by Aristo and maybe by Bachmann. In today’s economy, that may not happen for quite a while.

Sad that to most people perception of large scale isn’t this:

or even this:

but this:

Because this is what they actually see in the stores like Target, Toys-r-us, even OSH and Big Lots now only sell the really crappy chinese sets at Xmas, not the better quality sets. This doesn’t help promote large scale in any way.

Same holds true with NEW high-end Lionel from special dealers and the Lionel crap they sell at Target and Toy ‘R’ Us. $2000 locomotives vs. 89.99 sets, BOTH have the Lionel name.

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Well Harv, you wont get much of an argument out of me on those points :wink:

Harvey Henkelmann said:

I’d like to add my two cents here, at the risk of being kicked off the forum for speaking my mind.

The vast majority of Americans are trying to make ends meet, either they are seniors on fixed income or younger people who work two or more minimum-wage jobs just to pay the rent, mortgage, utilities, etc.

America will never recover until industry and manufacturing are brought back to our shores, until then it will only get worse you can mark my words.

That being said, we should turn our backs on the Chinese-made junk and concentrate our patronage on American manufacturers such as USA Trains and Hartland Locomotive Works.

Thanks Harvey…I’m happy to see I am not alone, but until the stock and housing markets suffer another “correction” or until a man loses HIS job, these are voices in the wilderness.

For now, not a day goes by that I’m not grateful to be one of the lucky ones who still has (for now) the limited time and resources to enjoy working on my railroad.

I’d love to know the back-story to the anticipated demise of the Spectrum line. My observations from my club are that the Spectrum narrow gauge locomotives are well established, but the rolling stock is seldom purchased. Club members (and me) would rather purchase new or used Accucraft narrow gauge stock. I never see Big Hauler stuff. Could it be that Spectrum is caught in the middle of the good-better-best conundrum? Big Hauler is good. Spectrum is better. Accucraft is best. I catch myself searching ebay for used Accucraft rolling stock and picking it up for the price of new Spectrum stock.

I’ve always liked Spectrum locomotives and own four of them. Their lower price point makes them much more accessable than Accucraft locomotives. However, I only need a limited number of locomotives. On balance, I purchase a lot more rolling stock and, personally, I consider Accurcraft quality and accuracy worth paying a bit more for.

Also, I never saw a great breadth of selection of Spectrum rolling stock. Could be I missing something? Are there other offerings besides box cars and tankers? Did they develop stock cars, flat cars, MOW cars, etc.? I don’t know.

I wish we were privey to the Bachmann’s unit sales numbers.

Harvey, some of the USA line was manufactured in China. I do not know if it still is.

Joe, There were Spectrum large scale gondolas and I believe there were flat cars. But I can’t see spending the cash for the spectrum cars. And as you said, most of us only need so many locomotives. I have passed up deals on second hand locomotives simply because I don’t need anymore.

Joe Bussing said:

I’d love to know the back-story to the anticipated demise of the Spectrum line. My observations from my club are that the Spectrum narrow gauge locomotives are well established, but the rolling stock is seldom purchased. Club members (and me) would rather purchase new or used Accucraft narrow gauge stock. I never see Big Hauler stuff. Could it be that Spectrum is caught in the middle of the good-better-best conundrum? Big Hauler is good. Spectrum is better. Accucraft is best. I catch myself searching ebay for used Accucraft rolling stock and picking it up for the price of new Spectrum stock.

I’ve always liked Spectrum locomotives and own four of them. Their lower price point makes them much more accessable than Accucraft locomotives. However, I only need a limited number of locomotives. On balance, I purchase a lot more rolling stock and, personally, I consider Accurcraft quality and accuracy worth paying a bit more for.

Also, I never saw a great breadth of selection of Spectrum rolling stock. Could be I missing something? Are there other offerings besides box cars and tankers? Did they develop stock cars, flat cars, MOW cars, etc.? I don’t know.

I wish we were privey to the Bachmann’s unit sales numbers.

Personally I think Bachmann either vastly overestimated the potential 1/20.3 market or it tried in an effort to push the large scale narrow gauge market into 1/20.3 by becoming the major supplier of narrow gauge models. However I think they misfired by underestimating the existing establishment of 1/22.5 in the marketplace coupled with unfortunate timing of the economic recession which drove a great number of modelers out of the hobby, and the subsequent Chinese economy wreaking havoc on model train manufacturing supply and price spiking.

While many modelers did jump on the 1/20 train with new layouts and many rebuilt their layouts to accommodate the larger 1/20.3 stock, some even multiple times, I suspect that even with the demise of LGB for a while, far more already established 1/22.5 layout owners simply refused to restart/rebuild and simply kept what they already had, if they needed anything they simply went to the second hand-market on Ebay. The recession took what was a growing hobby hobby and threw a crowbar into the mechanism. Those with already established layouts simply held on to what they had, those who had planned to get in now found themselves without the necessary disposable income and dropped out altogether, leaving a market of mostly already well established modelers who simply didnt need or have room for new aquisitions, all this leaving Bachmann high and dry.

The increasing cost of manufacturing in China was probably the death-nail for Spectrum, when the Forney came out with a close to $1500 MSRP for an engine LGB was selling for literally half that price you just knew something was going wrong somewhere. Its generally a terrible idea to introduce vastly more expensive product in the middle of a huge recession but thats exactly what Bachmann did, and while they new models did find buyers, the new high price models were alot harder to shift, so hard they mostly sat in the warehouses in China. The bean counter in China had to have see that the US market has receded greatly since 2008, and that even with the economy slowly rebounding, the old pre-2007 Boom market simply wasn’t there and wasn’t going to come back, maybe ever. the market is different, the demographics have shifte. Also factor in the Lee Rily’s personality was a great motivating factor behind the 1/20 movement, without anyone like him to wave the banner in the Kader organization, the bean counters are going to put the beans where they can sell them, and for the time being that means no Spectrum. Will it come back? maybe, if the economy gets better and people start demanding it.

Personally though I always thought 1/20 had too many drawbacks, sure there great to look at, but the plastic details were fragile as heck, and they are huge, I mean really HUGE, when I first saw the 1/20 K-36 I said that it was big enough it could almost be Ride-On. Ever see 1/20 Jackson-Sharp passenger cars from Accucraft? holy smokes they are gigantic… and these giant trains REQUIRE giant trackage and giant yards and giant layouts. Something not alot of people have room for. The smaller 1/22.5 stuff can be more easily accommodated in most peoples yards as they can run on smaller diameter track and they have a very long track record of being more accomodatable in reserved spaces, which is VERY appealing to newbies.

So from my POV, and this is just my own opinion, but I think 1/20 was a niche (1/20) in a niche (narrow gauge) in a niche (large scale). This inside an already longer established world of pre-existing 1/22.5 trains. In the long run I think Bachmann should simply re-issue everything it has done in narrow gauge Spectrum (1/20 and On30), but in the already easier to accommodate world of 1/22.5. Then they would have a seamless crossover market with LGB, Piko, and Hartland products, new and old, already on the market. That’s a marketing no brainer to me!

The stuff about Bachmann has not been substantiated enough yet, let’s not get too excited, but I have now heard from 2 sources about the LBH going away.

The Accucraft rumor I have heard only from one source.

And, the USAT “American series” of 1:24 stuff is and has always been manufactured in the USA, most people are most familiar with the wood reefers with the many different paint jobs.

The rest of the USAT stuff is and has always been made in China, at first by Sanda Kan, which was bought by Kader.

Greg

Greg, yes, I agree about Bachmann. I even said so in my first post. We need to wait and see what really happens with Bachmann.

I thought I had heard that USA was bringing the molds back to the states, but I couldn’t remember for sure. I know the wood side reefers (in 1:24th scale) were made in the US. That is why they can do short runs of them for the shows.

What we know for sure is that Spectrum production is on hiatus.

…and that the Lil big hauler line is gone away

Greg what rumor about Accucraft? I didnt mention them. The only rumors Ive heard is that they may come out with a new lower price line for the AML line.

I know you did not mention them Vic, I did (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-money-mouth.gif)

With the passing of Fred Devine, a lot of the driving force is gone.

I won’t spread any rumors, let’s wait a bit and see what surfaces.

Greg

Ahh Lee Riley syndrome. okay Greg…standing by with an open ear.

weeell tried a quote, and input … but it did not ‘take’ ! so deleted the quote.

hmmmm strange.