Maybe the motor is bad, or maybe there is some binding in the mechanism.
I agree, both Dick! The proper dimensions to not overstress the press fit, and thicker too. I’m glad it’s running, but I don’t think 10 minutes proves the longetivity of the gear, get 100 hours on it and see. The good news is that you seemed to have gotten the press fit dimensions right! Greg
Dick Friedman said:
You are probably right, Greg, about the nylon. But I don’t know whether to be sure the hole is a bit larger than the axle (6.5mm works great on my 6mm axles), or the gear should be thicker. If the gear was as thick as the gear and shoulder, would that make it better you think? It would be easy enough with Tinkercad to make the gear thicker, even with PLA or ABS.
Today at Club meeting I ran one of my trolleys (the one whose motor is NOT overheating) for about five or ten minutes. It ran well, little stuttering, on a track which had been running a short train only moments before. That and yesterday’s ten minute run seems to prove the reliability of PLA in the short run. I’m going out to the workshop to put it on the rollers and run it some more.
I ran Santa Trolley #1 for about 1.5 hours yesterday. (I should be keeping a log so I’ll know when I hit 100 hours. I’m thinking I’m at about maybe five so far.) Number 2’s motor is hard to turn by hand and gets very hot in a very short time. It ran well before I put some gear lube on it, so I’m thinking that might be the problem. I’ve got some good contact cleaner which I will wash out the motor and see if tht stops sthe overheating! Wish me luck!
Dick, there are many reasons, so I’m going to ask some questions before I try to give you an answer.
Measure the current on the motor with it running at a particular voltage, then do the same with a “good” motor.
There’s a ton of things that can go wrong, contamination/damage to the brushes, carbon buildup in the commutator gaps, but one thing that is getting more common is partial shorting of the windings. The “golden” example of this is the Aristo GP-40 counterfeit motors.
It fools people because the motor seems to operate. What happens is the insulation on the windings breaks down, thus shorting SOME of the windings. The motor, with fewer windings, draws more current due to the lower resistance, but it also makes more heat.
The heat is the thing that broke down the insulation, so this tends to get worse until the motor gets really hot and people stop using it.
This is just ONE of the many scenarios.
So, please measure the current between a good one and the “bad” one and lets investigate from there.
Greg
Motor was sticking, and I can’t see how to open it up. Perhaps the brushes have worn out, and the springs for them are catching on the motor shaft. Guess I’ll have to look around for a scrap trolley motor. I’ll check with Bachmann, as I’m sure new motors (if they exist) will be more reliable than these old ones.
If it was working well, and then failed after lubrication, that speaks of brush contamination, although you said grease, and heavy oil is appropriate for motor bearings, so maybe you meant grease the worm.
Yep, if a motor is hard to turn, you have a big problem.
Greg
Dick Friedman said:
Motor was sticking, and I can’t see how to open it up. Perhaps the brushes have worn out, and the springs for them are catching on the motor shaft. Guess I’ll have to look around for a scrap trolley motor. I’ll check with Bachmann, as I’m sure new motors (if they exist) will be more reliable than these old ones.
…
Hi Richard.
I had the same problem on both of my trolleys … I checked with Irvin Holloway " An old friend that work and repair at Bachmenn shop and now is retired." He said there is a replacement motor block that finely after years and years of waiting for them. They now have a motor block with the side and finders for around 55bucks, ( They don’t sell motors only…) but it is a cheap replacement with no slider like the old ones had.
That’s why they just send you a new trolley for a trade in on warranty. Not worth fixing in there shop.
He said …The motor it self is a very toy cheap 3 pole motor and really not made to pull the load it has. By the way try this motor at 21 V’s. and see how long it last until smoke come out. lol. It only a 12 v DC motor. and most people don’t run them wide open down the tracks. I did this with my first trolley and had to send it back to Bachmann.
Take a look at your motor and take it apart… it’s not good any way now.
Richard … you’ll see this type of motor in dolls and other toys. Remember the clinic on our animation with the club last year.? That’s the kind of stuff we showed. “yup they don’t last there ether.”
Best bet is to do like I did for a cheap way to go was found a used Aristo FA-1 motor block and it almost fits right in. Only thing I had to do was drill some holes for the side frames to ride on the Aristo extended Axles.
Here a photo
A better way also is to have a block with a slider to help on the two axle pick up. It is to get a USA motor block that are used on like there F-3s.’ or etc. they have sliders to help out on the rails on track power.
I add a 9 v batt for the lighting, but am using the block voltage for the head and tail light we now have on ours.
You can kind of see the interior lighting is on.
The red 3 MM on the front is the tail light due to this trolley goes from town to town on its own trolley line…
Bachmann make a lot of great stuff, but a lot of the drives still have something they should look in to.
Hope Bob McC. doesn’t get disgusted of how I single out Bachamnn. (If so I’ll delete it.)
For Me …I don’t like any of the ways MFG keep taking these bad replacements short cuts to same money and heck with us buyer. Maybe you don’t remember the old toys stamped out and came from… “Made in Japan.” Now “Made in China”
Old guy here… Noel
Call me Richard is need more help and infom.on the trolleys.
You may want to check with Northwest ShortLine to see if they have a replacement motor. They’ve got one that’s a drop-in replacement for the motors used in many of Bachmann’s steam locos (“Connie,” 4-4-0, 2-6-0, and others), but I don’t know that the trolley would have used the same motor without comparing dimensions.
Later,
K
Kevin Strong said:
You may want to check with Northwest ShortLine to see if they have a replacement motor. They’ve got one that’s a drop-in replacement for the motors used in many of Bachmann’s steam locos (“Connie,” 4-4-0, 2-6-0, and others), but I don’t know that the trolley would have used the same motor without comparing dimensions.
Later,
K
…
Kevin S. This motor block is only good for going around a Xmas tree for a shot time running… After that it time to send in for replacement.
The darn gears won’t hold up ether. They split or the idler will ware out on the shaft. Just not a good motor block. Look at the size of the wheels that larger that a Aristo FA-1 wheel… that motor has to pull a lot and that why the reduction in using a idler. No bushing or bearing, just rub one material against another fixed material… “Won’t last.” Holes for the shafts ware out in no time.
Do like Greg E said and maybe use a difference type of material for gears. , then maybe.
To me is waiting more money out the window.
Sorry… old guy here Kevin and hate the crap that is giving to us. Noel
Interesting. I went to NWSL looking for motor. I can buy a motor block that needs major surgery to fit into a Bachmann trolley at a cost which exceeds the cost of a new Bachmann trolley I think. I couldn’t find a price. I guess I’ll look around for someone dissatisfied bith a Bachmann trolley that won’t run properly, but it as cheaply as I can, and then meld the two.
Greg Elmassian said:
Dick, nylon has been used for years successfully. The reason the nylon gear broke was bad engineering, made too small so the press fit created excessive stress. (also cannot speak to the quality of nylon used in this case)
Cracked, split, nylon gears are pretty much an epidemic with Bachmann HO and On30 trains.
Correction, pandemic.
I was told the Eggliner motor block is a close drop in replacement with minor modifications needed. I have purchased an Eggliner and I will be attempting to change it out probably in another week when I have time and I will let you know.
Unless I missed it in this thread is there a direct drop in replacement for this trolley?
Mark, it doesn’t appear that there is a direct drop in replacement any more. Not since Barry’s Big Trains closed.
Dick Friedman said:
Mark, it doesn’t appear that there is a direct drop in replacement any more. Not since Barry’s Big Trains closed.
…
Richard,
Bachmann finely got some stock with a replacement drop in, but still probable won’t last very long like the others. The new one’s has no sliders on them like the old one had and still has same original 3 pole motors.They go for around 57 bucks plus shipping.
http://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_69_613&products_id=513
Thanks to Noel Wilson’s Bachmann Trolley rebuilt - with the USA motor - I’m now ready to do the same having received my open trolley and USA diesel motor block from Charles Ro Supply.
My order was made last month and a prompt response from USA was the trolley was back-ordered and when received, both motor and trolley would be sent. They were, yesterday.
USA came through as stated.
Costs - ordered directly from USA Trains.:
Bachmann Open Trolley 109.95 and the USA motor block was 49.95
I think both prices were very fair.
Bachmann Open Trolley factory lubrication:
There isn’t any – at least of significance.
I opened the bottom plate - six screws - and used Mobil One grease on the worm gear, and the Mobil 1 synthetic oil on the axle rests. Plus, I dropped oil on both armature shafts and tilted the unit to permit the oil to run back into the bearing sleeves.
I’ll use the trolley until the motor assembly gives out, then install the USA motor block. Noel’s pictorial on replacing the Bachmann with the USA is easy to follow and is very helpful.
Kudos to Noel.
Dick,
That overheating motor probably has a partially shorted armature. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-frown.gif)
Joe Zullo said:
Dick,
That overheating motor probably has a partially shorted armature. (http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-frown.gif)
…
Ya Joe. Guess that was our problem to. Run them for a long time at shows and then after awhile, they start going slower and slower and not paying attn. We up the run voltage from 12 volt to finely ending up after awhile to 20 volts. then the motor armature goes Pooffff… lol. Carbon built up short out the 3 poles… (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-frown.gif)
Actually it’s usually insulation breakdown in the windings. As the insulation breaks down with heat and vibration, the coils short. This means less windings and draw more current, require higher voltage to maintain speed.
eventually enough shorts that it really draws so much current that it seriously overheats, and usually melts the plastic under the commutator or other parts iniside and the rotor locks eventually.
it’s a vicious cycle, the more heat the more the insulation breaks down, the more it breaks down, the more heat.
Greg
Thanks all for advice AND comments. Can’t fix the motor’ I’m still looking for a used motor. Wish I could 3D print them as easily as the gears.