Large Scale Central

BN 8th Sub (Issaquah Branch) Track Plan

I’ve never taken the time to draw up a track plan for the layout, but I finally sat down and drew up a track plan of the layout I’m building. Note each grid square equals 2’

One of the difficulties of outdoor modeling is creating track plans that take into account the ground. In my case, my backyard slopes away from the house, towards the top left hand corner of the drawing. As a result, I had to have a 4% grade from the staging yard to the main layout area. Not ideal, but I know I can handle the max 10 car trains with ease (I once pulled 32 cars up a 150’ of 4% grade in the rain). This also presents access issues. I have two removeable bridge sections that span from the garage area door way, and what’s labeled as “Sammamish River Crossing”. This allows regular walkway access to the backyard when ops sessions are not taking place. By making these compromises, I can have both the staging yard around 43" high along with the main layout section about 45" above the ground. If I had not dropped the grade, the section of Redmond would have been 70+" above ground.

Detail “A” is the staging yard in the garage. The longest track holds 8 cars, so there is lots of above layout storage for rolling stock. At the end of the staging yard is a sliding transfer table that allows for run around moves on yard tracks 2-4. This functions not only as a staging yard, but also to represent the area of Woodinville, where the two locals interchanged cars, and often empty cars for Darigold where stored.

I’m actually making progress on this layout… I’m still blaming Devon for getting me sucked into the MIK challenge this year. I still haven’t finished off those trucks yet, but I also got sucked into another truck build as well. It’s all Devon’s fault. Otherwise, I would have more track laid. I’m not as fast as some guy to the south of me by a few hundred miles, but its a slow progress.

1 Like

Some progress is better than no progress! Looks great.

Wish I had been smart enough to turn right out on benches in the back yard rather than tuning left and going into the front on the ground.

Looking good so far Craig!! That Devon guy can throw monkey wrenches into a lot of things!! LOLKeep up the progress pictures. it should be about 1/2 way done by this weekend, running trains by the first of June???

Jon Radder said:

Some progress is better than no progress! Looks great.

Wish I had been smart enough to turn right out on benches in the back yard rather than tuning left and going into the front on the ground.

Jon,

I realized quickly after the first “chainsaw’ layout as the smaller scale guys call them that any future layout was going to be elevated. The elevation of this one ranges from 60” down to 36". I’m hoping to go no lower than 32" at any point, but I will see how stage 2 develops when the layout wraps around to the front of the house. Right now I’m at the extreme low end of the yard, and based on my initial surveying of the yard I should be okay. I will say, I envy Rick’s ability to make his track perfectly level. I’ve tried just about everything short of laser leveling or using the survey equipment to mark roadbed heights every 12-24". I’m slowly getting better but the first part of the layout I built last summer definitely needs some work before I invite guests over.

This is just about eye level!

From the otherside. My oldest is standing on a stool to reach the layout.

Craig

Pete Lassen said:

Looking good so far Craig!! That Devon guy can throw monkey wrenches into a lot of things!! LOLKeep up the progress pictures. it should be about 1/2 way done by this weekend, running trains by the first of June???

I’m hoping to make some good progress this weekend, but I’ve also got a firepit in the backyard I need to finish as well. I can’t run too many trains right now anyways as my locomotives are in pieces as I’m busy upgrading the wiring, deadrail set up to use with my protothrottle. So it was a good motivation to pause from burning my fingers with the soldering iron to stabbing my fingers with tiny spikes. (https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-tongue-out.gif)

Craig Townsend said:

From the otherside. My oldest is standing on a stool to reach the layout.

Craig

I built a couple of stools to make it easier to reach the other side of Delores Yard and the service yard. I’m probably the only one that’s ever used them mainly to make repairs…(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-wink.gif)(https://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-cool.gif)

Ken,

The boys are on the non railroad side (basically a few buildings), and the opposite side is probably 60" from the ground. Eventually when lumber prices go back down (???) I’d like to make a wide stair tread say 24-30" long on the higher side. It’s kind of an odd design, because not 3’ away, I have a low duckunder that I also want to excavate deeper (maybe 50"? at the moment) to its a much easier duckunder. And then on the complete opposite side of the layout I need some sort of liftout/swing gate so its accessible from both ends. The simple solution would have been to mirror the layout design and flip everything but I couldn’t face the idea of flipping the feed mill.

Liking the progress there Craig! How did you frame up the layout? 2x8 frame with joist every so often? Then what’s the black stuff on top of the lumber, tar paper?

I’d like to frame out my train room, but 2x4x8’s are $10.50 right now in my area (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-yell.gif)If I would have known a year ago when they were $3-$4 each… sigh…

Eric,

It’s just 2x6 framing spaced on 24" centers using joist hangers then 2x4 ripped into 1x2 to make 2 square foot grids. Probably a bit of overkill, but I can walk on it without it flexing. The black stuff is just cheap landscaping fabric, but underneath that is 1/2" hardware cloth for strength. The fabric is just to make sure that the sand doesn’t fall out. I didn’t invent this method I just copied it from everyone else here. To give some scale here the layout is 7’ wide, and about 50’ long, but I can model this section of Redmond in almost 1 to 1 with no selective compression.

There’s a total of 5 structures;

Feed Mill (166’ x 114’), station (42x60?, platform is 120’), 2 story brick building (60x60x30), and two small shops (20x40). I try to whip out the foam core mockups this weekend and place them on the layout.

Yah I hear you about the lumber prices. I’m trying to hold off expanding but the itch is hard to not scratch when I want a fully operating layout. PT 2x6x 8’ are something like $25 a piece now! Ouch.

Double Post…

So I think I royally screwed up…

My frame is 2x6 with 2x4 and 2x2 cross members. Each “section” is supported by a 4x4 post. When I but it all, everything was nice and level including the ladder roadbed. The I added the 1/2-1 yard of sand on top and got massive sagging of the 2x6 beams. They 2x6 beams are 10’ and are only supported on the ends with the 4x4 posts. Clearly not enough support with all the weight.

Question is do I start adding more 4x4 posts at say 4’? Or do I say forget it, the weight is already caused the sag and the structures and track won’t add that much more?

The big structure that’s failing is 7’ x 20’. The internal framing seems to be holding well but the exterior beams have a noticable sag. I’d say 1"-2" over a 10’ length.

I guess I got ahead of myself when I was framing it up and not adding supports. Oops.

The support is the most important part of the whole structure. I built mine with all 2x4’s and nothing has sagged. It also has support posts every 4’ under it. I don’t know how much rain or snow you get where you live, but that’s another consideration since that will add more weight to the structure. Both Richard Smith and Rick Marty stressed the importance of that when I was building mine.

I also have 2" of dirt on top of the layout that I can plant groundcovers in.

I also have a build log in the articles sections that goes into detail about it.

https://www.largescalecentral.com/forums/topic/23559/a-raised-road-bed-a-build-log-for-the-rgs-raised-layout

Craig Townsend said:

So I think I royally screwed up…

Figures…(http://largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-sealed.gif)

Get a jack and lift the sagging members back up to where they are supposed to be (or as close as you can) and put the extra 4x4s underneath. You will be happier that way.

Craig Townsend said:

… They 2x6 beams are 10’ and are only supported on the ends with the 4x4 posts … I’d say 1"-2" over a 10’ length…

KISS! (you may read the last “S” as “Sir” , not as “Stu…” )

two queenposts and two thin steelcables with spanners. like in bridges, or like in wooden freightcars.

(made something similar for a elevgated 9ft. stretch of track on ply. indoors)

but this thread in general makes me wonder, how young you have to be.

that’s a heavy building work and and big maintenance load, you are putting on your shoulders.

Ken,

I recall reading yours, Rick and Richards build logs over the years and thinking to myself that I need to build at 4’ supports. Then I started building, and asked my Dad a retired Civil Engineer, if he thought 4’ spacing of posts was overkill. Yep, I think so Craig. Its a 2x6 it should be able to hold the span…

Guess that’s that I get for listening to my Dad’s advice.

Ken, are you supports 4’ in both the X/Y direction or just say the X?

The widest section is 7’, so I’d probably be okay just adding a post at 3 1/2’.

Chris,

Yes I think I will be adding some support columns. Anything new that gets built will be overbuilt. Of course I screwed up. That’s my middle name. Make 3 mistakes because your in a rush to build. I’ve got some 4x4 posts laying around not being used along with some concrete blocks, so I should have everything on hand that I need to fix it.

Korm,

I’m a young buck compared to the rest of the crew. I think this is actually less maintenance than a traditional on the ground layout.

Craig,

Korm’s suggestion is a very viable option to help support what you have already built. Another option would be to mark off 1/3 span marks on the 2 x 6 beams and add a knee brace from the bottom of the 4 x 4 post to the 1/3 point marked off on the 2 x 6. You have the option to leave the existing sag and just support to mitigate any further sag, or jack the center span up and level the span, then install the knee braces. Knee braces can be 2 x 4 or 2 x 6 at your option.

Bob C.

Bob,

A knee brace might be an easy option. At this rate, I’m thinking it might be easier to just leave the sag and support. I know that one of the 2x6 wasn’t exactly straight from the big box store ( well it warped in the garage while waiting for construction) so I’m wondering how much that is effecting it as well.

Ironically, the smaller section along the fence line that’s built of 2x4 and is 16" wide is doing just fine. And the other end of the build framing (3’x20) seems to be holding up fine as well. Its just this big unsupported section that seems to be causing the issues.

Craig,

I found through the years of construction and having problems like the one your having that all kinds of things may work but one that never fails is having the support legs close enough together that the runners can’t sag. They can still twist, cup and warp but they can’t sag. I have found that 36-38 inches on center is best, but never more than 48 inches on center. The other thing I have learned the hard way is always notch the legs so the runners rest on a solid base transferring the load to the block or concrete below. Runners screwed to the side of a leg will always sag as the wood shifts and screws bend or snap off.

I am talking about a weight loaded table top (soil, gravel. etc) not the kind that live steamers build.

Also 2 x 4’s will work fine for the intermediate legs if notched and set on a solid block or brick footer.

Craig Townsend said:

Ken,

I recall reading yours, Rick and Richards build logs over the years and thinking to myself that I need to build at 4’ supports. Then I started building, and asked my Dad a retired Civil Engineer, if he thought 4’ spacing of posts was overkill. Yep, I think so Craig. Its a 2x6 it should be able to hold the span…

Where the table is 4’ wide or less they’re just on the xy plane.

Where the table is wider then 4’ I tried to fit one in the middle. Any span over 6’ wide I definitely added a support.