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  • Topic: Aristocraft PRR Steel Long Caboose ART-42104

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    • September 9, 2019 5:25 PM EDT
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      Aristocraft PRR Steel Long Caboose ART-42104

      I have a very dumb question...

       

      So, I picked up an Aristocraft Caboose which has lights and smoke...  I run DCC, so I need to do anything special to this car or am I okay to just throw it on the rails and let 'er run?  I know nothing about electrical stuff.

       

      Thanks

      Steve

    • September 9, 2019 5:28 PM EDT
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      What is your DCC track voltage?

      (hint, if you don't know, you should find out, and if you don't have a RMS reading AC meter, put a full wave bridge on the rails and measure the DC from there and then add 1.4 volts)

       

      Greg

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    • September 9, 2019 6:05 PM EDT
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      Greg Elmassian said:

      What is your DCC track voltage?

      (hint, if you don't know, you should find out, and if you don't have a RMS reading AC meter, put a full wave bridge on the rails and measure the DC from there and then add 1.4 volts)

       

      Greg

      Hi Greg,

       

      It's piko's dcc system and it says this.....  "Provides up to 5 amps of DCC power output at up to 27V NMRA DCC track voltage".  This help?

       

      Thx

       

      Steve

    • September 9, 2019 6:11 PM EDT
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      Well, 27 volts is probably too much for the caboose accessories. IIRC, there are switches on the bottom of the caboose to turn off the smoke and lights. with them turned off, they won't burn out.

      ____________________________________

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      and King Butt Modeler

    • September 9, 2019 6:16 PM EDT
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      No, it does not help, because it is probably not accurate, and not a real reading.

       

      I made my best suggestion... since you do not really know what your track voltage is, then the answer is:

       

      if the DCC RMS voltage is at 18v or over, assume your bulbs will burn out (incandescent), and the smoke unit will work great, but watch for overheating and melting plastic.

       

      Your track voltage SHOULD be at about minimum 20v and I run the full 24v.

       

      Greg

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    • September 10, 2019 7:41 AM EDT
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      I believe when mentioning NMRA at 27 volts, this is the NMRA's way of looking at 22 volts DCC and spec/ing it at 27 volts which really is a DC max voltage.

       

      35010 is 20 volts DC input but 22 volts out????  How do they do that???  And they state 27 volts DCC.  I do not believe the writer for the specs understands power at Piko.

      The 27 volts DCC is an NMRA interpertation of a sine wave which DCC does not have.  PS, most decoders on the market will give real smoke if it is truely 27 volts DCC!!!!!!!

      35015 booster is spec'd the same way.

    • September 10, 2019 7:45 AM EDT
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      On another note....   If the input power is 20 volts DC then the output power would only be 18-19 volts due to the input power bridge and the mosfet drivers having a loss.

       

      LGB, Massoth have 24 volt DC inputs to get the 22 volts NMRA spec to the tracck and Zimo has 30 volts input and gets 24 volts to the track.

       

      You get what you pay for!!!!!!!

    • September 10, 2019 10:05 AM EDT
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      Dan Pierce said:

      On another note....   If the input power is 20 volts DC then the output power would only be 18-19 volts due to the input power bridge and the mosfet drivers having a loss.

       

      LGB, Massoth have 24 volt DC inputs to get the 22 volts NMRA spec to the tracck and Zimo has 30 volts input and gets 24 volts to the track.

       

      You get what you pay for!!!!!!!

      Separately, the piko DCC totals over $800.00, I was thinking at that price it was a good system.  Lol

    • September 10, 2019 12:35 PM EDT
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      Well, the fact we use 30 volts as an input on the Zimo does not tell you the maximum voltage drop.

       

      In the NCE system, after a lot of testing, it showed that the minimum drop with DC input was 3 volts to the booster DCC RMS output.

       

      Some boosters / command stations with integral boosters have DC to DC power supplies so they can put out a higher voltage on the output than the input.

       

      Bottom line, too much conjecture, measure the voltage.

       

      Greg

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    • September 10, 2019 12:51 PM EDT
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      Or just shut off the lights and smoke ….

      ____________________________________

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      The light in the tunnel might not be an engine , but a light in the caboose of my own train on my Roundy Round Rail Road !    My empire is complete...I think...

    • September 10, 2019 12:55 PM EDT
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      B

        Brilliant, Sean; simply brilliant...

         Fred Mills

    • September 10, 2019 2:29 PM EDT
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      Sean McGillicuddy said:

      Or just shut off the lights and smoke ….

      My problem would be, I don't want to...

    • September 10, 2019 6:23 PM EDT
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      Jeeze, ignore them, do what I said... then you can have an answer. You should have the ability to measure your track voltage... I gave you a simple method, a cheap meter and a $1 full wave bridge.

       

      Greg

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    • September 11, 2019 12:51 AM EDT
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      Greg Elmassian said:

      Jeeze, ignore them, do what I said... then you can have an answer. You should have the ability to measure your track voltage... I gave you a simple method, a cheap meter and a $1 full wave bridge.

       

      Greg

      Thanks Greg, I'm looking into getting one.

       

      Steve

    • September 11, 2019 11:15 AM EDT
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      So, the RRampmeter is really the tool to use, since it can read direct from the track, and when you are not using it to chase down track issues, you can leave it in series with your output and measure DCC voltage and current... but if you don't want to pony that up, any old DC meter with a full wave bridge converting the DCC to DC will be enough.

      https://www.dccspecialties.com/products/rrampmeter.htm

       

       

      In any case, this will help you stop burning out your bulbs... I first noticed this as I used to leave track power on all the time, with a couple of trains on the track, then I noticed one marker light was out, then another, and by the time I smartened up, I'd burned out the marker lights on a caboose and several locomotives... and as you know, Aristo steam loco marker lights are not sitting for sale on shelves in the local Walmart.

       

      Best, Greg

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    • September 11, 2019 8:21 PM EDT
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      Steve said:

      I have a very dumb question...

       

      So, I picked up an Aristocraft Caboose which has lights and smoke...  I run DCC, so I need to do anything special to this car or am I okay to just throw it on the rails and let 'er run?  I know nothing about electrical stuff.

       

      Thanks

      Steve

       

       

      I'm suspecting you will be just fine throwing it on the rails and let er' run. However "I personally do not own an ART-42104".  I do believe the others that do  "own one and run DCC"  already have you covered.

       

       

       

       

      This post has been edited by : Rooster

    • September 11, 2019 10:04 PM EDT
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      The lights may burn out and the smoke unit overheat on DCC unless you run lower than 18 volts DCC

      ____________________________________

      Be sure­ to visit ­my site, l­ots of tec­hnical tip­s and modi­fications,­ and you c­an search ­for topics­ and key w­ords.


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    • September 13, 2019 3:50 PM EDT

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      Steve said:

      Hi Greg,

      It's piko's dcc system and it says this.....  "Provides up to 5 amps of DCC power output at up to 27V NMRA DCC track voltage".  This help?

      Thx

      Steve

       

      Steve, You are reading this on the Piko America ordering page.

      The 27VDCC shown there is either a typo or some misunderstanding.

      If you check the manual for the Piko DCC Central Station (which you should really use as reference), it states that the DCC voltage is 22 VDCC regulated.

      https://www.piko-shop.de/is.php?id=6353

       

    • September 13, 2019 4:03 PM EDT

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      Dan Pierce said:

      35010 is 20 volts DC input but 22 volts out????  How do they do that???

       

      This is certainly possible - it's called a DC-DC Converter

       

      However, I doubt that the Piko Central Station is using that type of circuitry.

      But if one checks the Piko manual rather than just a sales blurb on the Piko America website, one will see the following specs:

      Allowable Input Voltage: 16 - 24 VDC

      Total Allowable Load: 5.0 amps

      Output Voltage: appro, 22 VDCC, regulated

      (translation of the German part - the English translation in the manual is slightly different but the meaning is pretty much the same)

      https://www.piko-shop.de/is.php?id=6353

       

    • September 13, 2019 4:14 PM EDT

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      Steve said:

      Separately, the piko DCC totals over $800.00, I was thinking at that price it was a good system.  Lol

       

      There is nothing wrong with the Piko DCC Central Station that I'm aware of.

      Like Greg said, measure the actual track voltage with either a DC meter and a diode bridge like Greg said or buy a RRampmeter

      Considering the amount of money one spends on DCC equipment, I think a RRampmeter is a good investment to monitor and troubleshoot.

       

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