Forums Power and Sound Power and Sound
  • Topic: Designing a new control system

    Back To Topics
    (0 rates)
    • June 29, 2018 9:43 PM EDT
      • Chelmsford, MA
         
      • Posts
        674
      • Thanks
        36
      • Thanked
        124

      Designing a new control system

      I am in the process of designing a control system for display layouts.  I have most of it designed.

       

      The one problem I am having is designing a way to charge batteries (likely LI) in a hands free fashion.  Thoughts include stopping the train at a precise location and having some sort of plug inserted into the train.

       

      Anyone have some clever ideas.

       

      Stan

    • June 29, 2018 10:50 PM EDT
      • San Diego,
         
      • Posts
        34
      • Thanks
        0
      • Thanked
        7

      Maybe an inductive charging system in a trailing car?

       

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_charging

    • June 30, 2018 4:23 AM EDT

      •  
      • Posts
        393
      • Thanks
        10
      • Thanked
        86

      Stan - this article might give you some ideas

      http://www.trainelectronics.com/Animation-power-a-rotating-object/

      dave

    • June 30, 2018 11:24 AM EDT
      • Kittery, ME
         
      • Posts
        670
      • Thanks
        46
      • Thanked
        274

      Could you just use  the rails?

    • June 30, 2018 11:32 AM EDT
      • Fort Myers Beach & Annapolis, Florida & Maryland
         
      • Posts
        2,359
      • Thanks
        80
      • Thanked
        380

      Eric Reuter said:

      Could you just use  the rails?

      When I did my first conversion (Aristo Pacific), I set up the tender so that the wheel pickups could charge the onboard battery.

       

      As the batteries were in the boiler, I should probably have used the pilot or driving wheels    I must confess that I never tried to use this track charging system.

      This post was edited by Pete Thornton at June 30, 2018 11:32 AM EDT
      ____________________________________

       

        Pete

    • June 30, 2018 11:50 AM EDT
      • Vail, Az
         
      • Posts
        5,278
      • Thanks
        1,738
      • Thanked
        1,293

      I think a charging dock, like subway platforms around 3 sides, where the loco connects to the charge circuit. My first idea would be rollers that contact metal covered tool boxes hung under the frame. I don't now if the charging circuit would lead to pitting or deposits, but a tool box cover should be easier to change out than wheels or rail.

      ____________________________________

      John

       

      The older I get, the less I know, please don't make me prove it.

       

       

    • June 30, 2018 1:05 PM EDT
      • Chelmsford, MA
         
      • Posts
        674
      • Thanks
        36
      • Thanked
        124

      Eric Reuter said:

      Could you just use  the rails?

       

      Actually having power transmitted through the rails is what needs to be avoided in this situation.

       

      Display layouts typically are harder to reach and the goal is minimal maintenance.  If the layout is outdoors, even if covered poses even more problems from dirt pollen and other items that can cause problems with power transmission.

       

      On the locomotive side power on the rails can lead to the need to clean track and wheels and over time will cause pickup springs to lose their spring.

       

      LI battery charging poses its own challenges. 

       

      I like the idea of induction charging.  Has anyone tried this in large scale?

       

      Stan

      This post was edited by Stanley Ames at June 30, 2018 1:06 PM EDT
    • June 30, 2018 4:08 PM EDT
      • Santa Ana, CA
         
      • Posts
        1,676
      • Thanks
        2
      • Thanked
        137

      Something to the following effect:

       

      You could use a section of a narrower gauge track (e.g., 0-gauge) placed between the rails of the G-gauge.  The engine/battery car/pick-up car would have a set of contacts placed underneath, equally spaced.  When a train pulls into this section of track, a magnet under the engine/rail car activates a solonoid/servo that raises this narrower gauge section (only need to do this on one end) to meet the contacts.  The operation would be timed to lower itself before the train leaves.

       

      Alternately, you have this narrower gauge section on a "bent seasaw/lever" arrangement such that the train itself pushes down one side as it passes by it's mear presence raising the other to the contacts.

       

      For that matter, there is really no reason to mechanically raise the narrower gauge each time if it is simply placed a bit higher than the existing rails, but lower than the lowest point of contact with a train, and the pick-ups consist of "springy whiskers" (like an H0 slot car) or "brushes" to contact those narrower rails that don't hang below the existing rail (to avoid binding in curves).

       

      You would only need to keep a short section of the narrower gauge track and the contacts clean.

      This post was edited by Todd Brody at June 30, 2018 4:37 PM EDT
    • June 30, 2018 5:08 PM EDT
      • Elverta, CA
         
      • Posts
        399
      • Thanks
        3
      • Thanked
        58

      Inductive charging is plausible I'd suggest, Tesla cars and golf carts have wireless charging answers.  Sounds like a good project.

       

      Michael

    • July 1, 2018 6:50 PM EDT
      • Curmudgeon at Large, Insurance Warrior
         
      • Posts
        2,131
      • Thanks
        72
      • Thanked
        224

      Stan,

       

      You have asked for assistance, but have provided very little in the way of operational parameters. If you are using a battery powered set up, I am going to assume that this display will run for only very short periods of time with sufficient downtime between runs to allow for charging.

       

      How about providing a little more information on the big picture.

       

      Bob C.

      ____________________________________

      We don't stop playing with trains because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing with trains.....

       

    • July 3, 2018 6:21 AM EDT
      • Bundaberg, Queensland Australia
         
      • Posts
        375
      • Thanks
        13
      • Thanked
        86

      Have a look at this https://www.gscalecentral.net/threads/progress-on-my-tramway.310668/page-4 post 75 it may be of some use.

      This guy thinks out of the box all the time and does things on a shoe string budget.

      This post was edited by GAP at July 3, 2018 6:23 AM EDT
    • July 3, 2018 8:29 AM EDT
      • Lancaster, Ohio
         
      • Posts
        682
      • Thanks
        39
      • Thanked
        119

      I think battery power would work for an on demand type display, the local hospital here has one in an outdoor atrium visible through windows on a main hallway. There is a button to push to activate and I believe it only makes one round trip per cycle. Unfortunately it is track powered and dependent of volunteers to keep it running order. The train parks in a covered area unseen, so some sort of inductive charging area requiring no human intervention would seem like the way to go if they were to battery power it. I assume it's still there but I don't go there any more than absolutely necessary.

    • July 3, 2018 12:06 PM EDT
      • Be Nice or STFU
         
      • Posts
        9,371
      • Thanks
        248
      • Thanked
        858

      I'd go a different route... basic law of systems design, the more components, the more points of failure.

      Wire the whole train for power pickup, run power to the rails, and you are done.

      No matter where the layout is, it will need occasional cleaning, battery or not, there will be stuff falling on the track outside, and inside, dust and other contaminants in the air.

      Many LGB-based display layouts have run until they have worn the flanges off the wheels or half the railhead off.

       

      If you want a charging system that relies on a dock, you just added another point of failure.

      If you want inductive charging, you can do this, less moving parts, but the system won't be off the shelf, so another custom design with unproven long term reliability.

       

      Greg

       

       

      This post was edited by Greg Elmassian at July 3, 2018 12:07 PM EDT
      ____________________________________

      Be sure­ to visit ­my site, l­ots of tec­hnical tip­s and modi­fications,­ and you c­an search ­for topics­ and key w­ords.


      ­Click HERE for Greg­'s web sit­e
      PLEASE NOT­E: Please do NOT use private messaging, i­f you have­ a questio­n, feel fr­ee to emai­l me priva­tely, u­se regular­ email onl­y: greg@el­massian.co­m

    • July 3, 2018 6:58 PM EDT
      • Curmudgeon at Large, Insurance Warrior
         
      • Posts
        2,131
      • Thanks
        72
      • Thanked
        224

      Maintenance free and train layout should never be used in the same sentence.

       

      I received a similar request from a local NPO. After several weeks on and off, the Master Degree IEEE and I came to the conclusion that the best system would be a push button to start, a ramp up circuit from 0 - run voltage, a timer for lap(s), and a ramp down to stop. Ramping up and down generates the least amount of wear on the locomotive gear train. We also concluded that about 12-14 volts would be ideal for the speed, which would cover almost any loco they decided to use. This also minimized track and loco wear by not having it running continuously.

       

      My tuppence.

      ____________________________________

      We don't stop playing with trains because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing with trains.....

       

Forums Power and Sound Power and Sound

    Icon Legend

  • Topic has replies
    Hot topic
    Topic unread
    Topic doesn't have any replies
    Closed topic
    BBCode  is enabled
    HTML  is enabled

Add Reputation

Do you want to add reputation for this user by this post?

or cancel

Ads by Google