I dont normally post this kind of stuff, but this is starting to make the rounds on various train forums and mailing lists. Someone has applied to patent wireless control of model trains. Specifically, the application looks like track powered with wireless control. Those of you with any kind of business interest in this sort of thing should take note. There is TONS of prior art for this.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US20140360399.pdf
This should be fun to watch.
I am not sure how far that will fly. Beside the fact that there is plenty of variations already available and in production, it has always been my understanding that for a patent to be valid, the item (or use of the item) had to meet a uniqueness qualifier. Having been involved in the process a time or two, that was always the first criteria that was attained. I am also pretty certain that Aristo Craft/Crest, AirWire, DigiTrax, etc. would have already patented this ‘idea’ if it were patentable. IMHO this will most likely not go too far.
Milage may vary, and we all know about opinions…
We were involved in something similar once. Suffice it to say its difficult and or impossible to patent an idea, process or concept. A legal term has been coined for same if I recall its known as a conceptual patent. Yet the Government does not recognize same, as viable. I’m with you Bob, prior art is there and well known.
Michael
I don’t see what the big deal is. (http://www.largescalecentral.com/externals/tinymce/plugins/emoticons/img/smiley-undecided.gif)
Any application can be trouble… Joe, rather than tell you that it can be a big deal, do a little research on BEMF in model trains. It involves MTH. It was a HUGE deal, even though there was a lot of prior art.
I can share my take on it offline if you really want to see something taken way wrong…
Greg
With respect, I'd like to say something about the origin of this thread. There is a lone developer who has been working on an open source bluetooth project that he hasn't been able to get off the ground. (You can read his frustrated posts yourself). And he has decided the reason he can't get his project off the ground is because of this small development group (BlueRail Trains) who are planning on releasing their first products at the end of this summer. So he has started a thread in every train discussion group on the web trying to get people worried about this patent.
You can listen to plenty of interviews of BlueRail on the Model Rail Radio podcast, and its a pretty interesting project. They are developing plugin boards that can go in any train that you can run from a smartphone. They have licensed the technology to Bachmann as well. If you read the patent, it is not related to DCC and is no threat to anyone IMHO. And in the interviews (if you check them out) BlueRail plans to open the API to JMRI and have also been in communication with the Open LCB guys, in addition to their plan to make boards that can go into any train (of any manufacturer).
I hope the product comes out soon (they plan to support Large Scale, you can run it from 150 feet, and it operates Dead Rail as well) . And I hope the angry developer who has started every thread on this topic gets his board working and finds peace.
But the thread I keep seeing reposted that this is a "threat to the industry" really has no basis, as far as I can tell. If you are interested in learning more about the BlueRail project, I recommend you listen to the various Model Rail Radio podcasts where BlueRail Trains is discussed and interviewed in depth.
And if you want to learn more about the angry developer who keeps posting threads about this patent, you can google "open source bluetooth train". So far I have seen this same guy start negative threads about this patent on ModelTrainForum, TrainBoard, OGaugeRR and the JMRI Yahoo group - that is how this story is "making the rounds" on various train forums and mailing lists.
Just had to vent. Back to having fun.
Ray, just as a frame of reference for the poor decision making ability of the patent office, do you know about the MTH BEMF patent?
That is a real world example that hurt the industry for years.
I suggest you investigate how something so dumb happened.
Greg
Greg,
I am familiar with the MTH Back EMF patent issue. We all know Mike Wolf and Matthew Katzer have a history of litigation related to their patenting, and it has cast a dark cloud over the word “patent” in this industry. Also if you’ve watched any interviews with Mr Wolf you can see how territorial he is about technology. I saw a live discussion at a train show with the BlueRail guy, and he spoke openly about trying to develop products that worked well with all products out there (nothing like the interviews I’ve seen of Mike Wolf). When he was asked by an audience member about their patent, he said they just wanted a chance to develop the technology without having the rug pulled out from under them, and that they had no interest in stifling innovation. I can’t say for certain, but I don’t think everyone out there is a Mike Wolf or a Matthew Katzer.
Ray
Ray
Just a minor correction. Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe that Matt ever initiated any litigation regarding his patent.
Likewise I think you may be surprised about the Mike Wolf patent and the lack of initiation of litigation.
I have read the current patent application being discussed and all of the claims deal with bi-directional communications of radio communications.
Stan
Are you all worried? Remember when you ran HO or O how you need to keep the track oh so clean? How your first Garden RR required you to clean the Brass rail before every operation day? Well this system will require the same amount of work. I like the power source and control system all together and on board the powering unit, be it steam or the other kind.
I won’t be making any changes. Paul
The system supports Dead Rail.
Thanks Ray, clearly you astutely grasp the situation.
Good to know that that outward signs are not to suppress or dominate.
Regards, Greg
I want an app for my smart phone so I don’t even have to be home to run my trains.
Devon, you better have some on-line cameras to go with remote running when not at home!!
Of course in their system they have two way communication…for current and voltage I guess…they should add an onboard camera!
Well of course I would have to have an on board camera at least so I can enjoy it.
Even though I am being sarcastic it is not even close to being out of the realm of possibility. So if you have battery power/RC you could drive your loco onto the charging station. These could be a set of rails that supply charging power much in the same fashion that DC track power works. Then when your ready to drive your train off have an app that calls your train on a cell phone and then fires up on board telemetry. The camera comes on and you drive your train around and when done park it on the charger again.
I know the capability is there. I work in the water industry and I have a app that allows me to get on my telemetry system and turn on and off pumps and see levels ect. So i know that if someone really wanted to do it, I don’t even think it would be much of a stretch.
Devon, what you asked for with DCC is available and for free, and no sweat at all.
If you want battery power, there’s nothing off the shelf for you, much less feree.
Greg
Greg Elmassian said:
Devon, what you asked for with DCC is available and for free, and no sweat at all.
If you want battery power, there’s nothing off the shelf for you, much less feree.
Greg
That doesn’t surprise me at all. Can you operate it via internet connection from a remote location? I can see it even with what little understanding I have of DCC
